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Club Direction

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We should be aiming for success, not another repeat of the last 30 years. If disappointment happens then so be it, we will have to live with it like we have done for decades, but we shouldn't be setting being knocked out of the FA Cup as a target, or as a measure of success.

I went on a Watford forum the other day, and someone described us as the Middlesbrough of the North West. It's hard to argue, when you see numerous people, not just yourself, talk about finishing 8th and being knocked out of the FA Cup as a measure of success.

Being on the right track and the aim are not the same things though. The aim of a racing driver is to win the race, he still has outrace everyone else to do so and every overtaking move he completes means he is on the right track.
 
We should be aiming for success, not another repeat of the last 30 years. If disappointment happens then so be it, we will have to live with it like we have done for decades, but we shouldn't be setting being knocked out of the FA Cup as a target, or as a measure of success.

I went on a Watford forum the other day, and someone described us as the Middlesbrough of the North West. It's hard to argue, when you see numerous people, not just yourself, talk about finishing 8th and being knocked out of the FA Cup as a measure of success.

He's not saying that 8th place should be the pinnacle of our ambitions tho.

Would 8th be an improvement on last season? Of course.

Then from there we take stock and try to finish top 6, then top 4.

If you think we're gonna be challenging for the title next year thats just deluded
 
Being on the right track and the aim are not the same things though. The aim of a racing driver is to win the race, he still has outrace everyone else to do so and every overtaking move he completes means he is on the right track.

If he's been finishing 8th - 12 for the past five years and he does so again, then he's just stagnating. Especially if there's been a group of new entrants bypass him and finish on the podium in recent years.

As for the 'good cup run' cliche, I just can't stand it I'm afraid. No big clubs talk like this. Chesterfield and Watford may buzz off being knocked out of the FA Cup, but I've seen Everton get knocked of the cup on plenty of occasions, and I can confidently say that it's an ABSOLUTELY CRAP EXPERIENCE!
 

He's not saying that 8th place should be the pinnacle of our ambitions tho.

Would 8th be an improvement on last season? Of course.

Then from there we take stock and try to finish top 6, then top 4.

If you think we're gonna be challenging for the title next year thats just deluded

I don't subscribe to this idea of linear progression, I'm afraid. I don't think you need to finish 6th before you are allowed to finish in the top 4. I don't think Leicester, Wolves or Sheffield United subscribe to this idea either.
 
If he's been finishing 8th - 12 for the past five years and he does so again, then he's just stagnating. Especially if there's been a group of new entrants bypass him and finish on the podium in recent years.

As for the 'good cup run' cliche, I just can't stand it I'm afraid. No big clubs talk like this. Chesterfield and Watford may buzz off being knocked out of the FA Cup, but I've seen Everton get knocked of the cup on plenty of occasions, and I can confidently say that it's an ABSOLUTELY CRAP EXPERIENCE!

We are not a big club though currently, have not been for a very long time.

To keep the racing analogy a driver cant come into the pits and stay there for five laps and then expect to come out and go straight into first place. His/her car is now in optimal condition and it's time to start climbing up to the front of the race. That's where we are right now but have only just entered the pits.
 

We are not a big club though currently, have not been for a very long time.

To keep the racing analogy a driver cant come into the pits and stay there for five laps and then expect to come out and go straight into first place. His/her car is now in optimal condition and it's time to start climbing up to the front of the race. That's where we are right now but have only just entered the pits.

I disagree mate.

I think we are a big club, but I think our fans have serious psychological issues. They have even started going around defining themselves as the world's most unlucky, hopeless, loser with the absolute bell-end phrase "Everton That", which again, is used to suggest that we are somehow the world's most hopeless pathetic loser.

Everton are nothing approaching hopeless or pathetic, and we certainly don't have to ask Leicester City or Tottenham Hotspur's permission to outperform them and bypass them in the premier league or a cup competition. We are more than capable of telling them to get out of our way!
 
We have to accept we have very limited pull, and we have to get the balance right with new signings.

Of course there is room for experienced players in their late 20s who will improve us immediately. And older if on a free.

That type of business though has to be limited.

There is enough time left, but we do need to compliment each expensive and older-profile type signing with one that could help turn a profit and balance the books a few years down the line. Ideally such younger players would not leave at all and be a mainstay in the side for a decade.

We can assume there is depth to the Allan and Doucouré links, but whilst Allan in particular seems an clear upgrade, I hope to be convinced in the next few weeks that we are taking a more strategic view on transfers. It's fine that Allan was Carlo's player, and Arias was Brands. They might think now that even Koeman is worth a call, for the next batch of Barca rejects.

I don't think we'll build a team that way. We can pitch for the best young players, under a world-class manager. Some of them may say Carlo who?. Come here, only for a few years if need be, get your game regularly, improve your game, and we won't stand in your way with career progression.

We need to look at Spurs, Atletico Madrid (although not recently for either) Lille, Borussia Dortmund, Atalanta, Leipzig. The niche is there for a Premiership club to develop along these lines. We have to maximise the cards we are dealt.
 
I disagree mate.

I think we are a big club, but I think our fans have serious psychological issues. They have even started going around defining themselves as the world's most unlucky, hopeless, loser with the absolute bell-end phrase "Everton That", which again, is used to suggest that we are somehow the world's most hopeless pathetic loser.

Everton are nothing approaching hopeless or pathetic, and we certainly don't have to ask Leicester City or Tottenham Hotspur's permission to outperform them and bypass them in the premier league or a cup competition. We are more than capable of telling them to get out of our way!

Half agree, half disagree, I don't think we are big at all right now because big clubs win stuff, nobody other than Everton fans gives a toss about us really. Sleeping giant though certainly. There is a middle ground to be had, it's not just big or pathetic.

I don't have Leicester or Spurs down as big clubs either by the way.

If anything I find us a bit boring right now, nowhere near winning anything, never in any real danger of going down, out of the cups by February, we merely exist.
 
Based on my opinion, obviously. I’m allowed one, am I not.

Its fairly clear that both the OP and my post were about the team, so I’m not sure why you’ve gone on to talking about the stadium etc. That’s a different matter.

Its no wonder people talk about happy clappers when you see posts like yours. ‘all this negativity is helping no one ’? I don’t see what’s particularly negative about my post. It’s supposed to be a realist take on it, I’m not pouring cold water on anything or claiming we’re doomed, just saying I think our recruitment etc is a little bit muddled.

Of course what I’m saying is guesswork, what a bizarre thing to say. I’m not involved in the club and I don’t have a crystal ball, what else could it possibly be? I think saying ‘obviously you never know’ makes it clear that I’m not assuming anything about where these players would take us. It’s a football forum for giving opinions. I’ve given one and you’ve lost your head about it and started making up arguments that aren’t being put forward to make it sound like everyone else is a swivel eyed loon and you’re the voice of rationality. Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

Of course you are allowed an opinion. But if you want to get defensive, so is everyone and you regularly challenge other peoples.

You ask why I'm talking about the stadium, suggesting I'm then answering points you didn't make, because you and the OP were OBVIOUSLY talking about the team, and only the team. In a thread called "Club Direction", with the opening line of the thread being "I really can’t understand where this club is going at the moment."

Well, the 2 are inextricably linked. As I mentioned, 1 of our biggest obstacles into achieving the growth we need is our ability to legally finance it. The stadium and its increased revenue with help with that in the long run. But for the time being, we are hamstrung.

The stadium, along with the appointment of Ancelotti, also both point towards the general ambition of the board, which is important in terms of measuring or assessing any supposed direction we are headed in.

You both claim a lack of direction in our signings, even though we haven't yet made any, but I questioned the logic of questioning the potential introduction of experienced players in favour of young talent. My reasoning being that there needs to be a balance of getting the team ready and able to compete, or at least improve in the short term, to give us a platform to introduce younger players further down the line. We could go and sign 4 or 5 '18-22' year old players with potential, but naturally, we would need to give them time to settle in and grow. They may have maybe 100 games worth of experience each, and we would expect them to not only instantly improve us, but give much needed experience to the promising young players we already have?

If you ask anyone where the current strengths of this team are, they would all, to a man, name 7 or 8 of the same players, all of whom are 23 or under. Ask the same question of what we lack, and other than Pickford, it's midfield mobility, experience, leadership, drive, and upgrades to positions where we have older players who are deemed past it or not good enough. It appears to me as though all of the players we are being linked with, address these very issues.

In terms of my bizzare statement on your guesswork, I am referring to the fact that you make assumptions on both immediate and long term improvement based on the quality of players we are signing. I'm assuming this has more to do Doucoure and less about Allan, given their respective teams and reputations. You may say its being realistic, and maybe 7th or 8th is a realistic step. But it's the overall negativity surrounding it which is what irks me. It would be realistic to want and to expect to achieve a gradual improvement. It is negative to suggest that gradual improvement is not good enough or fast enough. It is unrealistic to expect that we should be competing straight away. So while you may try and dress it as realism, it's genuinely not.

I'm not a happy clapper, I have been and can be as cynical as any when it comes to Everton. But I'm trying to offer some perspective to those who's heads are falling off because we haven't gone and signed 5 of the best players in the world in 1 fell swoop and turned us into title contenders that we deserve to be.

I'm wanting us to get behind Ancelotti, as genuinely 1 of, if not THE BIGGEST appointment we could have made, and indeed, have made in decades. There are signs for optimism, you just have to choose to see them.
 

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