Club Direction

[Arteta10]

I think if we manage to upgrade on the worst central midfield in the league, which is what appears to be taking place, then we can more than match Leicester's battle for a top 4 place that was seen this season.

Fair enough mate. I dont agree, but thats because our performance after lockdown has sucked all the positivity out of me.

If you'd asked me before the break I might have been more inclined to agree.

 

[Zatara]

I have no issue with people challenging my opinion, the issue is that you appear to have completely misrepresented what my opinion actually is. You can play semantics if you want but neither the OP that I referenced or my post mentioned anything other than the team. If you want to pretend that just because the title of the thread says club we must have been talking about the stadium etc as well then you're welcome to, but it would be a bit weird.

You've responded twice as if I made a scathing attack on the club and said everything was terrible, but I didn't at all, because that's not what I think. You're going on about ambition as if i've claimed we don't have any. When did i say that? I have no doubt at all that the club has ambition, my issue is that i'm not sure we have a clear idea on how to fulfil it.

I have not made negative assumptions about where the players will take us. I specifically said you never know what will happen, they could take us to the title for all I know. I'm just giving my personal opinion on their level of ability, anybody is more than welcome to disagree with me. That's why it's bizarre to say it's just guesswork, of course it is what else could it ever be from a fan? Personally I don't think the top 4 will be looking at the three players I mentioned and thinking we're going to be hot on their tails. It doesn't mean we can't overperform and catch them, but realistically I think they're players who would just make a better version of what we currently are, rather than completely revolutionising the side. I called you a happy clapper because you appear to be making out like anyone who isn't saying everything is wonderful and we should all be thrilled is just being negative and their 'heads are falling off'. How you can come to the conclusion my head was falling off from my post I really don't know. I basically just said I think it's fair to ask what our plan is. You're welcome to think there is one, I very much hope you're right but I can't see what it is myself, and you haven't even come close to explaining it to me, unless it's 'Carlo is boss and everything will work out because of that'.

Somebody said today on another thread that it seems like every time we hit a bump in the road we rip the whole thing up and start again, and that's kind of what I was getting at. Brands came in when we'd finished 7th and 8th in the previous 2 seasons, and it was widely accepted that we were underperforming. We're now in a situation where people are saying it would be good to finish 8th again, after spending another £250m. Forgive me if that doesn't seem like evidence of a clear plan coming to fruition.

I think this season the target has to be Europe.

If we had signed 3 players under 23 then i think supporters and players could see we were building the squad and accept 8th and missing out on europe. Then very high expectations for next summers transfer business to push us into the top 6 in the 21/22 season.

With the current rumours of;

Allan (29)
Florenzi (29)
Doucoure (27)

Its 3 short term signings whose wages wont be cheap. I think anything less than a european place would be failure.

Additionally, if we dont add to the 20-23 year old age group i think its a missed opportunity with so many quality players available this summer.

 

[Goat]

I think this season the target has to be Europe.

If we had signed 3 players under 23 then i think supporters and players could see we were building the squad and accept 8th and missing out on europe. Then very high expectations for next summers transfer business to push us into the top 6 in the 21/22 season.

With the current rumours of;

Allan (29)
Florenzi (29)
Doucoure (27)

Its 3 short term signings whose wages wont be cheap. I think anything less than a european place would be failure.

Additionally, if we dont add to the 20-23 year old age group i think its a missed opportunity with so many quality players available this summer.

You say 3 short term signings.

But its not like younger players stay any longer than 3 years anyway, which is the period those 3 players will probably stay.

So we either buy 3 ready to go players now or sign younger players like Kean who will probably need 2 seasons to hit the ground.

Its a no brainer.

 

[flibbyflob]

Fair enough mate. I dont agree, but thats because our performance after lockdown has sucked all the positivity out of me.

If you'd asked me before the break I might have been more inclined to agree.

I think the downturn after lockdown was a blessing in disguise as it made sure that our Italian overlord had to improve the midfield, had we fudged a top 8 finish he may not have gone for as many new options. As it is we could have a decent midfield in place for next season for the first time in ages.

 

[D*ck Solomon]

Agree.

Got to ask yourself whether a hypothetical target would rather join us, Leicester or Wolves this summer?

Taking away any bias, we'd be 3rd choice out of those teams for the vast majority of players. Like you said a good 12 months and things can change though. What we need is a good 12 months followed by another good 12 months. Once you start putting together 2-3 years of progress then you know you are on to something.

Much easier said than done though

Ancelotti should have the pull though. "Make him an offer he cant refuse...." etc

 

[Lanolin]

Excluding Spurs I think you need to take into account the strength of those leagues and how much easier it is to get European football in Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and Ligue 1.

Based on available resources, all those teams, bar Atalanta, would be expected to come Top 6 in their respective leagues and therefore qualify for european football on a regular basis. A fair few should qualify for CL every season. That's with the natural peaks and troughs that come with a sell to buy policy.

In comparison we have revenues that around 7th or 8th best in our league. Compared to the Top6 we have revenues that are less than half then them all. We are closer to Leicester (who will over take us next season in terms of revenue), Wolves, West Ham and Newcastle than the Top 6.

I think tthe difficulty of getting regularly European football hinders the ability to be a successful buy to sell club, like those you listed. You need to be viewed as a good stepping stone for players who are elite talents but not yet ready to play for CL challenger. Playing in CL or Europa provides a hugely visible platform for players at the likes of Dortmund, Lille, Lyon, RBL to shine. In comparison playing mid-table Premier League football doesn't necessarily do that.

I think we may want to look at the likes of Wolves and Leicester as our models. Or Spurs before them. They've managed to get European football when starting from a similar position. Our aim over the next 3-5 seasons should be to qualify for Europe more than 50% of the time.

I agree broadly with what you're saying, but I think you're massively underselling the lure of the PL. Not only is it the most watched league in the world, it also pays the biggest wages. Young players would jump at the chance to come to an established PL club and play regularly. I think if promised a set number of games by both clubs more players would come to Everton ahead of Lille. That's the issue though, the fact that the PL is more cutthroat in terms of managerial sackings and financial incentives means players are less likely to be given time to develop, and so Lille becomes a more attractive proposition.

 

[Zatara]

You say 3 short term signings.

But its not like younger players stay any longer than 3 years anyway, which is the period those 3 players will probably stay.

So we either buy 3 ready to go players now or sign younger players like Kean who will probably need 2 seasons to hit the ground.

Its a no brainer.

Pickford
New Holgate Branthwaite Nkounkou
New New Gordon
Kean DCL Richarlison
​

Im just throwing them into a formation but if we signed 3 u23 players rather than Allan/Doucoure/Florenzi then we would actually have an 11 of high potential outfield players all under 23.

Thats half a squad.

Im hoping that these 3 coming in means we are going to have stability and aim to add in more young players to the squad over the next 3 seasons.

 

[Goat]

Pickford
New Holgate Branthwaite Nkounkou
New New Gordon
Kean DCL Richarlison
​

Im just throwing them into a formation but if we signed 3 u23 players rather than Allan/Doucoure/Florenzi then we would actually have an 11 of high potential outfield players all under 23.

Thats half a squad.

Im hoping that these 3 coming in means we are going to have stability and aim to add in more young players to the squad over the next 3 seasons.

All this shows is that we currently already have a decent base of younger players.

 

[billyblue80]

People forget a lot of hot prospects won't want to come to us currently. We just finished 12th.

 

[Zatara]

All this shows is that we currently already have a decent base of younger players.

Certainly does

I think in an ideal situation you have:

3 keepers
10 first teamer starters
10 hungry u23s pushing for a place

Ive omitted Davies and Kenny as theyre looking on their way out.

That leaves us with 7.

If we do bring in Allan/Doucoure/Florenzi then we would still lack a RW player and i hope its an u23 player.

Then id like to see Brands/Ancelotti put a heavy focus on the u23s and below and make targeted signings to come into the youth squads.

If were going for experience this window i hope we still continue to build for the future.

 

[Goat]

Certainly does

I think in an ideal situation you have:

3 keepers
10 first teamer starters
10 hungry u23s pushing for a place

Ive omitted Davies and Kenny as theyre looking on their way out.

That leaves us with 7.

If we do bring in Allan/Doucoure/Florenzi then we would still lack a RW player and i hope its an u23 player.

Then id like to see Brands/Ancelotti put a heavy focus on the u23s and below and make targeted signings to come into the youth squads.

If were going for experience this window i hope we still continue to build for the future.

Another season in 12th while we wait for younger players to mature will finish this club.

You get a base and then you build on it, we first need a base.

We have a squad rammed full of players not fit for purpose, that needs fixing first.

Plus a pathway for younger players to breakthrough.

I dont see Davies going anywhere.

 

[Kirkles]

I reckon South West

 

[D*ck Solomon]

People forget a lot of hot prospects won't want to come to us currently. We just finished 12th.

I wouldn't read too much into last seasons positions at all. We improved massively under Carlo and anything once it all restarted wasn't relevant to us. We know why that was done. I think those games let Carlo have a good look at us, he will have a plan.

 

[Zatara]

Another season in 12th while we wait for younger players to mature will finish this club.

You get a base and then you build on it, we first need a base.

We have a squad rammed full of players not fit for purpose, that needs fixing first.

Plus a pathway for younger players to breakthrough.

I dont see Davies going anywhere.

Why 12th?

RW: Chiesa, Sarr, Diatta, Brooks
RB: Emerson, Aarons, Dalot


Any of those players in either position would improve us and theres obviously plenty more Brands/Ancelotti will know.

Just because players are at their peak or more experienced doesnt always make them better or the best fit.

 

[Zatara]

@MarcelsGoat

We do need to shift players and over the next 2 seasons theres 18 or 19 out of contract. There will be lots of opportunity and we have to build over the next 2 years.

With 3 experienced players coming in this window we will need to make europe for the gamble to pay off.