Conspiracy theories

[Oddball]

View attachment 171662

c`mon, do a wordy type post thing or have you gone and lost the thesaurus you were rattling on about earlier.

 

[Bungle]

soz in advance for long post, but such a serious complex issue can't be soundbited....maybe someone reading it will find something useful, or at least interesting.


i'm not anti-vax, i support its use for at-risk folk as well as any adult who wishes to take it. I don't support mandatory vax, or limiting the freedoms of the unvaccinated, or vaccinations for the under-18's.

For non-risk folk, I'm not convinced of its effectiveness in the Omicron-era. The official data (deaths/hospitalisations per vax-status) does not appear to support the vax at all. Anecdotally, there appears to be no difference to symptom-severity of the jabbed with Covid vs unjabbed with Covid. However, i agree the vax has proven good effectiveness for at-risk folk catching the Alpha/Delta variant. Which makes sense, as the vaccine was developed based on the original Wuhan-variant...the more variants evolve from that, the less related the current variant will be to what the vaccine is targeting.


Disclaimer: i'm unvaccinated myself, have had Covid twice...both times mild. I've followed all the rules, but the Virus does what it wants regardless.


On pro-vax propaganda, the most sinister i've heard so far was our (german) Kanzler telling the entire nation that the "unvaccinated are a danger to our children."

Then the Health Minister telling the folk that the vaccines are "free of side-effects" and that anyone not taking them is effectively choosing "not to save the lives of themselves and many others".

Incredible on so many levels...but sadly versions of this were repeated by civilians towards the unvaccinated, even in our own CA thread. There is no scientific consensus that those above statements are anywhere close to accurate. All the data tells us the vast majority of deaths are from the old, obese and already-ill...and that the infected carry similar viral loads for similar lengths of time, regardless of vaccination status. There's a convincing argument that it's the vaccinated who spread the virus, due to having more freedoms of movement, and feeling more blasé about spreading it as they felt 'protected'.


With such imbalance in the debate (also with social media removing posts, even accounts, of the vax-sceptical), it's no wonder conspiracy theories gain ground...and some turn out to be true, like the reduced sperm count of vaxxed males etc:

View attachment 171639


Those establishment 'fact-checkers' are also responsible for a lot of the polarisation these days (see also their performance when the Hunter Biden laptop story came out...another 'conspiracy theory' that turned out true).


On masks: i never wore one due to valid exemption: here in Germany i'm required to prove exemption, i think in UK it was more relaxed. On their effectiveness, i'm not convinced...the virus appeared to do its thing regardless of mask-mandates (lots of hard data on this). Hard lockdowns and strict distancing were more effective at containing spread, but had rather dire social consequences for many.


I support open discussion on vaccine issues, like side-effects and the nature of the EU's contract with Pfizer...which famously we're not privy to as it's heavily redacted, and Von der Leyen has deleted her private messages with the Pfizer CEO to prevent further scrutiny. Also interesting is how Big Pharma managed to turn around its reputation so smoothly, in the eyes of many. We mostly distrusted Big Pharma ppuntil fairly recently. And even further: how being pro-vax often puts you ideologically in the same camp as pro-Pride, pro-Ukraine, pro-Democrat, pro-BLM. This, naturally, means the other side are anti- all those things.

Labelism, as i mentioned in my last post, is another problem. I see it here, where i'm labelled anti-vax and all that entails (danger to the vulnerable etc), and i see it on actual anti-vax forums who take their scepticism too far in the other direction, believing all the vaxxed will soon die off, or the world will become infertile, ala Children of Men. There, in a futile attempt to bring the pendulum of collective understanding swinging towards the middle, i've been dismissed as a "shill" and sometimes even banned.


Polarisation...the fundamental poison of our times.

 

[dholliday]

.

So true what you have said, you buy a car, or such like, next thing you know those cars etc start appearing everywhere, the brain is a complex beast!

oh aye...i believe this pattern-recognition ability is located in the same area of the brain responsible for faith (belief systems). The same ability that also enables us to do cool stuff like understand mathematics and develop complex technology. Timothy Leary (infamous LSD-prophet) wrote about this in his final book Design For Dying.

Oddly, so did Ron Hubbard in Dianetics...the first half of which is genuinely interesting, thereafter it went full-on crazy so i switched off...but that first half making sense is how he snared a lot of scientology-believers.

Good Series Dark Tower, read most of his stuff, my missus got me into him as I always found him a bit too into the stuff he wrote about

haha not wrong there! himself

Spoiler

making an appearance in the later books

was cringe as fook.

He's often struggled in the final furlong of his stories...but is one of the world's best at setting one up.

In general the Q movement seems to be all based in real Conservative, God Fearing perspective of life, so you cant knock them for their beliefs, just not the extremes of it all, like Judaism, Islam and Christianity has the same extreme elements and who are we to really judge.

aye...i have regular conversations with muslim mates...sometimes they're really enthused when i express similar views, but then get rocked back when our views radically differ on another issue.

Belief Systems are fine, but in my view they shouldn't define one's opinions on things...only you the individual should define that.

As my Idol Elvis, once said, "you never walked in that man shoes, or seen things through his eyes, or stood and watched with helpless hands while the heart inside you dies, so help your Brother along the way............" the next bit gets a bit "godly" and I'm far removed from godly lol!

I'm not religious...but there is something to this God-business...just not sure what exactly, and i'm content not knowing until after this life has passed (a lesson from psychonauting, that one).

Cheers for the reply fella, always interesting to engage, its what makes us what we are, life would be pretty mundane without the ability to be open to possibilities.

Thanks Dixie...not long ago most debates were like this: open to possibilities. Only the last 10 years or so we've somehow regressed to this polarisation we have now.

That sounds like a Jordan Peterson fanboy rant to be fair.

Disappointing response, but the narrative runs very deep.

As for JP: he's genuinely helped a lot of lost anxious males. I'm glad i've not been lost or anxious, but i do understand that mindset...it leads to all kinds of self-destruction. JP has helped a bunch of such souls.

Haha. I wrote knowing you’d push back man!

As open-minded and outspoken as you are, i expect even you put the brakes on regarding certain subjects. There's minefields out there x

thats SOME post there Doc! the question `when will the Far Left destroy themselves` has already been answered, and the answer is now. they`ve politicised everything and as we already know politics IS the problem and identity politics destroys that persons own self.

Yes, well said oddlad.

This particular destruction of the individual is like a polar opposite to the type of ego-death psychonauts seek. The Far Left ideal of individual-death means a surrender to the collective, something which famously Orwell warned us about in 1984. And also highlighted the hypocrisy of such in Animal Farm, where the woke rules don't apply to everyone: the phrase it's ok when we do it! has replaced Four Legs good, Two Legs better!

In that respect nothing much has changed...these things come in cycles, only due to online-media we're hyper-aware of it.

You know, being far left doesn’t mean that you think people born with a willy should compete in women’s swimming.

But that is now a Far Left belief. That men identifying as women should be classed as women. It's established.

See the fuss around JK Rowling, nominally a 'liberal darling', but latterly a transphobe.

The polarisation that exists today means both the left and right will blame each other for this. This nonsense culture war is fueled by provocateurs on both sides.

Agree with this bit.

Now, I don't align with the far-left by any means, as far-anything is utterly cancerous, but that's quite a bit of nonsense tbh.

You replied to my Covid post from a few days ago with this:

Good for you. I'll keep it in mind when I talk to the family and friends of the deceased healthy sporty-types 20somethings that died as they weren't in the risk group.

At the time i assumed you personally know of a handful of "deceased healthy sporty-types 20somethings" due to Covid. I think I realise now you was talking hypothetically...which is of course total nonsense, considering the statistical probabability of such a person dying of Covid is near to one-in-a-million.

Can you confirm what you meant, and if you agree it was nonsense?

BLM was nearly entirely peaceful protests

dozens of innocent people died.

This is fine though, yeah?

Yes. The minimum age for mainstream cheerleading performance is 18.

What about their dances is sexual to you?

I think men assaulted women mate.

No you don't. Or you didn't a few days ago.

Men rape women every single day. I just call it out for what it is, a problem of male behaviour, not about what creed or ethnicity you are.

Aside from the obvious: that such mass assaults hasn't happened in Western cities in living memory: here are your posts from a few days ago:

You said "far worse" than Kopites. I have given you evidence of Kopites throwing bricks at randomers. I'm interested in what happens in Sweden, or Koln that is "far worse" than this?

The "local gangs" thing is not far worse than Kopites, or anything else. It's a dog whistle.

racist conspiracies about Koln.

So where did rape or murder happen then? Because those links were rebuffed about Koln.

Mind's gone.

you have already proved the point that anyone with a bit of balance or a different point of view is your enemy, and politicised it too. havent you noticed that society has gone way past the thin end of the wedge with these identity groups? provocateurs on both sides?- politicising everything again. whats wrong with common sense, decency, humour and understanding? youngsters would be better off being educated instead of indoctrinated

Well said again.

The thing with this is as well, and I say this as someone who has been to multiple pride events, that it's not a place for young children.

It shouldn't be, but it is becoming so. Support for Drag Queens in schools is gaining mainstream traction, as are adult-themed Pride events with Children in the audience.

This has only become a 'rightwing' talking point because the normal Left refuse to believe it's even happening.


But it is, already Dem political-candidates are publicly expressing support for such:

Societies have failed to educate the youth on so many topics, societies built by the previous generations. Even more so - the same youths are now getting even more punished.

The youth have a lot to answer for...back when i was young we felt a little more responsible for our own words and actions. That seems lost now.

Now the collective is responsible for their words and actions.

That way lies totalitarianism.

Abortions?

Another interesting subject.

1) US Abortion Rights are on average more liberal than many places in Europe, including France and Germany. This will likely continue even after the recent Supreme Court Decision, which merely lets States decide.

2) current science tells us the heart starts beating at 6 weeks in the womb...the question if women really own their body and its contents at that point becomes a matter of debate...do they have the right to end the life within them? How sacred is that life inside the womb? The whole debate isn't as cast-iron as some make out on here.

@DualityNSNO - its not rubbish mate, quite the opposite in fact. you mentioned 2 points, 1/ so, by your reasoning politics is the answer. its not, its a fascist system which creates problems and colludes with private multi-nationals to fleece and divide the proletariat. 2/ identity politics means you are no longer an individual, you belong to a group

Agreed.

Seems a much of the intolerance comes from the so called free thinkers and speakers.

The question is, who might you be referring to?

Best to stay vague, for it can be true of pretty much everyone on here.

The issue around this, and why there is defined division along so many abstract lines, is interpretation of language and meaning, alongside intent.

Intent is the key to understanding all this...but no one seems to pay it heed anymore.

Woke was hijacked by the system as a detrimental term to create more division.

Almost agree. It was hijacked by the system to create division, but not as a detrimental term, more as a self-reverential one.

Who, or what, is the system?

Is @Oddball making a show of himself in here too? How bizzar(o)e

Nah, Bizzaro/Damon had a different writing style.

There's a woman who lives by ours who has Q nonsense on show - under the fale 'save our kids' banner

There really is a massive problem of child/young-female sexual-slavery. Even in Berlin, many of the (legal) prostitutes are young women from remote Eastern parts in effective slavehood.

The Epstein-didn't-kill-himself conspiracy should at least open a few eyes that there is a real issue out there.


Quite what Qanon thinks it can do about it is another matter....

BLM is an arm of Antifa

What is your opinion on the dozens of innocent people killed as a result of the BLM riots of 2020?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

 

[dholliday]

the folks who rail against "woke" are not thinking for themselves and are being fear-mongered by Christian right/far right

Is Obama far-right?

That wokeism is damaging has become common knowledge and accepted doctrine, even amongst liberal organisations, icons & news agencies. GOT-folk are behind the times, man.

Further reading:

Obama calls out wokeness (in his own words)

Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America (book by acclaimed liberal-democrat black author)

Why 'wokeness' is the biggest threat to Democrats in the 2022 election (CNN)

Tony Blair tells Starmer to drop ‘woke’ politics and focus on economy (Blair's legacy is horrid because of his Iraq-invasion support, but he knows quite a lot about how to beat the Tories at elections)


Tons more from the likes of 'progressive' sites such as New York Times and Washington Post (behind paywalls) about how wokeism has become a profound problem.

It's not 2017 anymore. Many in the mainstream have now accepted that Woke is poison.

The sperm count thing you've referenced is not a conspiracy theory.

Not anymore it isn't.

'from a clinical perspective (the study) confirm previous reports regarding vaccines' overall safety and reliability despite minor short-term side effects. Since misinformation about health-related subjects represents a public health threat, our findings should support vaccinations programs'.

The conclusion isn't the interesting thing, the thing that folk wanna talk about is the despite bit.

The vaccine is doing something to men's sperm counts. It's also playing havoc with women's periods, see here and here.

Ergo, the vaccine is affecting the reproductive functions in some way we don't yet fully understand.

Cause for concern when the risk/benefit-ratio of taking the jab appears to present more weight on the risk side.


At least let's hope we can debate these things more openly, especially as the Autumn may bring the next push for jabs.

 

[LostLegend]

 

[verreauxi]

Nothing in my educational training would prepare me for the massively challenging intellectual puzzle laid out in the form of a lesser known Simpson's character. A true ace-in-the-hole/gotchya post. [Doffs cap}

 

[JammyP]

.

oh aye...i believe this pattern-recognition ability is located in the same area of the brain responsible for faith (belief systems). The same ability that also enables us to do cool stuff like understand mathematics and develop complex technology. Timothy Leary (infamous LSD-prophet) wrote about this in his final book Design For Dying.

Oddly, so did Ron Hubbard in Dianetics...the first half of which is genuinely interesting, thereafter it went full-on crazy so i switched off...but that first half making sense is how he snared a lot of scientology-believers.



haha not wrong there! himself

Spoiler

making an appearance in the later books

was cringe as fook.

He's often struggled in the final furlong of his stories...but is one of the world's best at setting one up.




aye...i have regular conversations with muslim mates...sometimes they're really enthused when i express similar views, but then get rocked back when our views radically differ on another issue.

Belief Systems are fine, but in my view they shouldn't define one's opinions on things...only you the individual should define that.


I'm not religious...but there is something to this God-business...just not sure what exactly, and i'm content not knowing until after this life has passed (a lesson from psychonauting, that one).



Thanks Dixie...not long ago most debates were like this: open to possibilities. Only the last 10 years or so we've somehow regressed to this polarisation we have now.



Disappointing response, but the narrative runs very deep.

As for JP: he's genuinely helped a lot of lost anxious males. I'm glad i've not been lost or anxious, but i do understand that mindset...it leads to all kinds of self-destruction. JP has helped a bunch of such souls.




As open-minded and outspoken as you are, i expect even you put the brakes on regarding certain subjects. There's minefields out there x



Yes, well said oddlad.

This particular destruction of the individual is like a polar opposite to the type of ego-death psychonauts seek. The Far Left ideal of individual-death means a surrender to the collective, something which famously Orwell warned us about in 1984. And also highlighted the hypocrisy of such in Animal Farm, where the woke rules don't apply to everyone: the phrase it's ok when we do it! has replaced Four Legs good, Two Legs better!

In that respect nothing much has changed...these things come in cycles, only due to online-media we're hyper-aware of it.



But that is now a Far Left belief. That men identifying as women should be classed as women. It's established.

See the fuss around JK Rowling, nominally a 'liberal darling', but latterly a transphobe.




Agree with this bit.



You replied to my Covid post from a few days ago with this:

At the time i assumed you personally know of a handful of "deceased healthy sporty-types 20somethings" due to Covid. I think I realise now you was talking hypothetically...which is of course total nonsense, considering the statistical probabability of such a person dying of Covid is near to one-in-a-million.

Can you confirm what you meant, and if you agree it was nonsense?




dozens of innocent people died.



Yes. The minimum age for mainstream cheerleading performance is 18.

What about their dances is sexual to you?



No you don't. Or you didn't a few days ago.


Aside from the obvious: that such mass assaults hasn't happened in Western cities in living memory: here are your posts from a few days ago:





Mind's gone.




Well said again.



It shouldn't be, but it is becoming so. Support for Drag Queens in schools is gaining mainstream traction, as are adult-themed Pride events with Children in the audience.

This has only become a 'rightwing' talking point because the normal Left refuse to believe it's even happening.


But it is, already Dem political-candidates are publicly expressing support for such:






The youth have a lot to answer for...back when i was young we felt a little more responsible for our own words and actions. That seems lost now.

Now the collective is responsible for their words and actions.

That way lies totalitarianism.



Another interesting subject.

1) US Abortion Rights are on average more liberal than many places in Europe, including France and Germany. This will likely continue even after the recent Supreme Court Decision, which merely lets States decide.

2) current science tells us the heart starts beating at 6 weeks in the womb...the question if women really own their body and its contents at that point becomes a matter of debate...do they have the right to end the life within them? How sacred is that life inside the womb? The whole debate isn't as cast-iron as some make out on here.



Agreed.



The question is, who might you be referring to?

Best to stay vague, for it can be true of pretty much everyone on here.



Intent is the key to understanding all this...but no one seems to pay it heed anymore.



Almost agree. It was hijacked by the system to create division, but not as a detrimental term, more as a self-reverential one.

Who, or what, is the system?



Nah, Bizzaro/Damon had a different writing style.



There really is a massive problem of child/young-female sexual-slavery. Even in Berlin, many of the (legal) prostitutes are young women from remote Eastern parts in effective slavehood.

The Epstein-didn't-kill-himself conspiracy should at least open a few eyes that there is a real issue out there.


Quite what Qanon thinks it can do about it is another matter....



What is your opinion on the dozens of innocent people killed as a result of the BLM riots of 2020?

Bloody hell! What was all that about?

 

[WA Toffee]

This is fine though, yeah?

Apart from the music, yes this is fine ?

 

[WA Toffee]

What I’ve seen on video in some of our cities, suppose you think they’re faked?? The man with his bum out twerking to the kids.. you think that’s okay? It’s getting hi jacked mate by the perverts!!!

You know what, I think it's ok. I have taken both my children to pride parades, and there have been women wearing not much, men wearing not much and trans wearing not much.

But I think it is ok because I can see (and have taught my children) the difference between someone dancing in the back of a truck in a parade and someone trying to entice kids into a white van to see some puppys.

 

[verreauxi]

Whole lot of this going on in here lately:

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

Whole lot of this going on in here lately:

Bung's shadow there on wall...perving.

 

[dholliday]

.

Seems a much of the intolerance comes from the so called free thinkers and speakers.

is tolerance an overrated virtue?


bit of Guardian history: a funny thing happened in 2009, when Comment is Free was still truly free. Online-commenting on current affairs was only a few years old. It felt very exciting, like a genuine new Frontier. While there was a bit of Left-vs-Right going on, it was nowhere near as poisonous or harshly-polarising as it is nowadays.

Still, The Guardian thought of itself as a Left-leaning paper, and of its readers too. It decided to do a public poll where registered commenters could vote for who was their favourite commenter of the year. Back then we had a few decent candidates, but one particular stood out: his monikor was moveanymountain (affectionately MAM for short). His posts were from a conservative rightwing perspective: but his persistent hard logic often took articles (and other commenters) utterly apart. He was a right-leaning Davek.

To the Guardian's surprise, MAM won the Readers' Poll. The prize? He gets to write an article himself. His piece?

Intolerance can be a virtue - Unchecked tolerance not only breeds antisocial behaviour – it can hamper a nation's very development


It has aged rather well.


The Readers' Poll was abolished after that year, and MAM was perma-banned.

The rest is history etc.

 

[McBain]

Theres a conspiracy that @dholliday ‘s original post was even longer.

 

[magicjuan]

Bloody hell! What was all that about?

Self joy. Think Noah on a rainy day..