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David Moyes - Taking a knife to a gunfight at West Ham, Part 2

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davek said:
Points are the biggest barometer. How can they not be?
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Because it is all relevant to that particular season.

If the league is generally more even and the points are more spread out then the totals to finish in certain places is going to be lower. The next season there are a 4/5 teams who are way ahead of the rest then the points needed to finish higher is going to be higher. Therefore you cannot judge a season to the next solely based on points total as it is relative to that particular season.

A team wins the league in one season with 80 points, the next they finish 2nd with 90. Which of the 2 is the better season for that team?
 
Grfirestorm said:
Let’s not forget he wasn’t good enough according to some when he managed us, certainly wasn’t worthy to grace our club a second time yet since he’s left we’ve not had a squad or a team play with any conviction that they actually care if we play well. Hats off to him, had a bad few years but showing again why he won manager of the year awards. Knows how to get the best out of a limited squad and limited resources.
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Good work so far, but if they can beat city then they should be able to go on and win it. This is the barometer of improvement, we know he could build decent, competitive sides. We know he can get to the odd semi final and singular final, can he not crap his pants when they get there and bring the silverware home will decide his legacy and whether we regret him not coming back.
 
David Moyes side are now fighting on three fronts and well ahead of the game in all of them.

1) Moyes' boys have become the first side to knock City out of the league cup for what seems like about a million years (five I think),

2) ripping up the opposition as they go well in Europe, currently leading their group and looking good to go a lot further too.

3) Top four in the league, the happy hammers now proudly sit in the Champions league qualifying places

Quite a few on here were vehemently opposed to Moyes and some on here would probably still think him a poor manager if he won everything ever year. He's not though and given time at the right club can be an excellent fit.

Last season was written off as as one-off by his opponents on here obviously sick that he did well and got them into Europe. IT WASN'T in fact he's even threatening to do much better this season.

Meanwhile..... we got the fat Spanish waiter and can look forward to bottom half and a possible relegation battle, no league cup, no top four but possibly yes to the championship
 
Chris O'Connor said:
David Moyes side are now fighting on three fronts and well ahead of the game in all of them.

Top four in the league, the happy hammers now proudly sit in the Champions league qualifying places

Meanwhile..... we got the fat Spanish waiter and can look forward to bottom half and a possible relegation battle, no league cup, no top four but possibly yes to the championship
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We're 3 points behind them, with countless injuries and Tom Davies costing us 2 points against United and WHU beating us because of a set piece.

So West Ham are getting CL and we're getting relegated. The league is certainly tight this year isn't it.
 

cjuk87 said:
We're 3 points behind them, with countless injuries and Tom Davies costing us 2 points against United and WHU beating us because of a set piece.

So West Ham are getting CL and we're getting relegated. The league is certainly tight this year isn't it.
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West Ham top their Europa League group, have just knocked City out of the league cup and sit in the top four in the league. Their trajectory is clearly upwards having just won four games on the bounce.

It's difficult to remember a better time for West Ham who with the exception of last year when they got Europe, usually sit in the bottom half looking downwards not upwards.

By contrast our trajectory is clearly downwards having lost to the hammers at home and then humiliated at home by relegation favourites Watford, conceding four goals in about 12 minutes,.

It's the direction of movement as well as the current position that tells a story. Last season now looks anything but a one-off successful one for Moyes' hammers, despite all the protestations that it was from his haters on here.

You can damn them with faint praise but the facts are they're going places.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
David Moyes side are now fighting on three fronts and well ahead of the game in all of them.

1) Moyes' boys have become the first side to knock City out of the league cup for what seems like about a million years (five I think),

2) ripping up the opposition as they go well in Europe, currently leading their group and looking good to go a lot further too.

3) Top four in the league, the happy hammers now proudly sit in the Champions league qualifying places

Quite a few on here were vehemently opposed to Moyes and some on here would probably still think him a poor manager if he won everything ever year. He's not though and given time at the right club can be an excellent fit.

Last season was written off as as one-off by his opponents on here obviously sick that he did well and got them into Europe. IT WASN'T in fact he's even threatening to do much better this season.

Meanwhile..... we got the fat Spanish waiter and can look forward to bottom half and a possible relegation battle, no league cup, no top four but possibly yes to the championship
Click to expand...
I'd argue that if we had hired Moyes over benitez then he would also be struggling with this squad and everyone would be claiming their thoughts of never bringing him back justified.

We are in a perfect storm scenario currently , whoever we hired would have the same poor squad with no money to spend and injuries.

So it's actually much better Moyes didn't come back because he would have been hated as much as Rafael is now for the teams failings.
 
wandyr79 said:
Because it is all relevant to that particular season.

If the league is generally more even and the points are more spread out then the totals to finish in certain places is going to be lower. The next season there are a 4/5 teams who are way ahead of the rest then the points needed to finish higher is going to be higher. Therefore you cannot judge a season to the next solely based on points total as it is relative to that particular season.

A team wins the league in one season with 80 points, the next they finish 2nd with 90. Which of the 2 is the better season for that team?
Click to expand...
It's self evident that a manager who reached a maximum of 65 points in 11 years is inferior to his successor who comes in and uses his players to get 7 more points out of them.

Does that really need rationalising? I'd have though it was glaringly obvious myself.
 
Ghost Rider said:
I'd argue that if we had hired Moyes over benitez then he would also be struggling with this squad and everyone would be claiming their thoughts of never bringing him back justified.

We are in a perfect storm scenario currently , whoever we hired would have the same poor squad with no money to spend and injuries.

So it's actually much better Moyes didn't come back because he would have been hated as much as Rafael is now for the teams failings.
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That's a fair point tbh and who knows, one thing in David Moyes favour is he inherited a very similar situation towards the end of the last century when he took over from the now sadly departed Walter Smith. At the time we were heading to the championship at a rate of knots and in dire straits. Moyes rescued us and brought is to much calmer waters, I remember David Unsworth scoring in Moyes crucial first game in charge at home to Fulham.

Moyes is never a quick fix though and it took time to build a team capable of challenging in the top half. Finishing in the top four in 2005 above Liverpool represented a fine reversal of fortunes from where we were when he took over.

It has to be the right club though and I would never claim he was right for United after Sir Alex left, equally his time abroad was always going to be difficult if you're in Spain at a lesser club and not Real, Barca or Atletico. He's now found his second Everton at the London Stadium and his happy hammers.
 

wandyr79 said:
Because it is all relevant to that particular season.

If the league is generally more even and the points are more spread out then the totals to finish in certain places is going to be lower. The next season there are a 4/5 teams who are way ahead of the rest then the points needed to finish higher is going to be higher. Therefore you cannot judge a season to the next solely based on points total as it is relative to that particular season.

A team wins the league in one season with 80 points, the next they finish 2nd with 90. Which of the 2 is the better season for that team?
Click to expand...
Why are you giving him the time of day? Remember that he won’t admit he’s wrong. Ever.
 

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