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David Moyes - Taking a knife to a gunfight at West Ham, Part 2

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Rob17896 said:
In fairness to him, he was always the bit of cash we did not have from winning something with us. He also can maintain a level once achieved. Man U made a massive mistake not giving him three seasons.
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Well that will always be the what if factor with Moyes time here. If there is a Ying to the Yang with him, that would be the total opposite side of the 11 years point ?
 

davek said:
Martinez took Moyes' Dad's Army and added Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barry...and taught them all how to pass a ball. THAT is how we got the Camelot season, nothing to do with Moyes.
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LOL, yeah sure.

so continuing the same line of thought, Martinez taught them "what" to finish in the bottom half two years running even with Moshiri's millions? Taught them to forget passing? "Dis-association" football?

Let's not forget that currently bobby martinez has won JACK with the talented bunch that is the Belgium men's national football team. So he must really be teaching them something out of the world to not win anything.

As I have mentioned somewhere else, what we really needed at the time was a mix of Moyes practicality and Martinez devil-may-car attitude, which is a pipe dream I know. With Moyes we had solidity and reliability, with Martinez we had excitement and "fingernails chewed off" scenario.

I would take the reliability of Moyes any day over whatever Martinez was offering.

I will repeat again what I have been saying. It was a right time for Moyes to leave us as he was getting into a comfort zone with us, but that does not mean he is someone that I hate. Neither is my perception changed that he is an excellent manager who continues to excel in the right frame of scenarios.
 
JobForTheMoyes said:
Moyes would have broke top four with Lukaku and would perhaps have won a cup.
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Conjecture your honour. This is a man who has won diddly squat and once had a prime Rooney and RvP at his disposal and ended up getting sacked. Then add to the fact he signed Beattie, Yakubu and Johnson for fairly big money and each struggled after 1 season here to hit anything like the figures they had prior to joining. The evidence to your statement just doesn't ring true. Way more likely he would have made Lukaku run into the channels and killed his confidence than break into the top 4 and won something.
 

The binman chronicles said:
Conjecture your honour. This is a man who has won diddly squat and once had a prime Rooney and RvP at his disposal and ended up getting sacked. Then add to the fact he signed Beattie, Yakubu and Johnson for fairly big money and each struggled after 1 season here to hit anything like the figures they had prior to joining. The evidence to your statement just doesn't ring true. Way more likely he would have made Lukaku run into the channels and killed his confidence than break into the top 4 and won something.
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Won League One and a Charity Shield, I believe.

And how can you say RVP and Rooney were prime - RVP was injured most of the season, and Rooney was in decline.

Wasn't Yakubu going great guns until he got a bad injury?
 
davek said:
Martinez took Moyes' Dad's Army and added Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barry...and taught them all how to pass a ball. THAT is how we got the Camelot season, nothing to do with Moyes.
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Are you saying all the players were really old with one exception? If so, you have now certainly lost your mind completely.

I have mentioned a lot that I agree that the first Martinez season was fantastic (it is hard not too and I doubt many would disagree) and an improvement on the last couple of stale(ish) seasons under Moyes, however, let us then consider the next 2 seasons shall we. Where we finished in the bottom half twice, so that is 2 years out of 3 finishing 11th, Moyes finished in the bottom half 3 out of 11 years. Now if anybody took a dads army and rejuvenated an Everton set up I believe that was Moyes.

The easy argument is that Martinez was starting to mould his own team then and failed miserably.
 

wandyr79 said:
Are you saying all the players were really old with one exception? If so, you have now certainly lost your mind completely.

I have mentioned a lot that I agree that the first Martinez season was fantastic (it is hard not too and I doubt many would disagree) and an improvement on the last couple of stale(ish) seasons under Moyes, however, let us then consider the next 2 seasons shall we. Where we finished in the bottom half twice, so that is 2 years out of 3 finishing 11th, Moyes finished in the bottom half 3 out of 11 years. Now if anybody took a dads army and rejuvenated an Everton set up I believe that was Moyes.

The easy argument is that Martinez was starting to mould his own team then and failed miserably.
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Martinez’s success was built on Moyes foundations. Soon as he tried to change the way we defend etc. it went tits up. Same thing is happening this season with Benitez changing how we defend set pieces.
 
The idea we didn't play any good football under Moyes is a total myth as well

His last season here we played some lovely stuff, notably the 3-1 against Saints at Goodison and the 3-0 shellacking of Swansea away

The difference between Moyes and Martinez was the former was more pragmatic and wasn't married to a certain style or "vision"

When the opportunity to play nice togger presented itself we did so, but when time called for us to get the bread and butter stuff right we focused on that. If that meant the odd less flashy performance in order to beat Man United and Man City at home like we did that season, then so be it

Fellaini absolutely dominating in that 1-0 season opening win over United was just as sweet to me as any of the flashy victories we enjoyed whilst Martinez was at the helm
 
davek said:
Martinez took Moyes' Dad's Army and added Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barry...and taught them all how to pass a ball. THAT is how we got the Camelot season, nothing to do with Moyes.
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You seem to be under some illusion that Roberto is this super coach, he isn’t, he’s won 1 fa cup with Wigan in his entire history and also got relegated.

As for this big season at Everton which you seem determined to dine out in for all eternity to the point of tedium, he finished 1 place higher than Moyes did in the previous season.

For some reason you unsurprisingly don’t want to go into the reality of what happened next, and the 2 x 47 point finishes he turned in before he was sacked after Moyes “dads army” had been dismantled by this clown.
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
He's completely rescued his career there

Might even finally win a pot too

Honestly I'm not sure he would have fared any better here than some of the other managers have

There are many more issues are our club beyond the manager position
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The mad thing is West Ham have big issues behind the scenes - the owners are hated and they are playing in an athletics ground few of their fans like/wanted.

Ultimately it comes down to solid recruitment / sound fitness regime - West Ham have recruited well and get few injuries whereas we recruit badly and have the worst medical team in the league.

Its why it winds me up people slating Benitez when the same idiots now salivating over Moyes were fuming when he was linked with a return here calling him a dinosaur.
 

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