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David Moyes - Taking a knife to a gunfight at West Ham, Part 2

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JobForTheMoyes said:
Nasty hit piece on Moyes by Sunderland fan Jonathan Wilson in the Guardian. Moyes stopped the Allardyce football revolution in its tracks, apparently.

It’s a real shame. Glory was clearly around the corner for Sunderland and their free-spending owner!


www.theguardian.com

David Moyes's sorry Sunderland saga bodes ill for West Ham | Jonathan Wilson

The Hammers may survive this season but the prospects for the next one do not look good – just ask fans of the Wearside club now in League One
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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To my mind he's pretty delusional when it comes to Sunderland, objectivity comes a poor second and the emotional attachment to his club with all the heartache and regrets just take over.

The article does have some merit though, more in the way of half truths but in his mind now indisputable facts, it's where what might have been and only if has taken residence, fiction has taken over from reality.

The nuggets of truth, though not justifying his conclusions, are...

Moyes' sides have always had a tendency to sink deeper and protect a lead, especially when against an 'on paper far superior' opponent. He''s always been a defensive manager first and foremost, the brand of football has usually although by no means always, reflected his character.

Allardyce, for all the hatred here and cruel knicknames we've adopted for him, is really very good at saving teams going down, even apparently hopeless and lost causes. His methods aren't attractive and it's often football in name only - a basic template on how to save a team of clueless players by defensive drilling, playing percentages and thorough preparation. He did do wonders in his short time at Sunderland, in fact saving them being such a remarkable feat he got the England job because of it.

This doesn't change who and what Allardyce is or the brand of football his team's more than often play.

The delusional Guardian journalist is a Sunderland fan and if he wants to paint Allardyce as some kind of badly done to Messiah while Moyes is far, far worse, then let him - he's speaking as a fan under the guise of a journalist.
 
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Chris O'Connor said:
To my mind he's pretty delusional when it comes to Sunderland, objectivity comes a poor second and the emotional attachment to his club with all the heartache and regrets just take over.

The article does have some merit though, more in the way of half truths but in his mind now indisputable facts, it's where what might have been and only if has taken residence, fiction has taken over from reality.

The nuggets of truth, though not justifying his conclusions, are...

Moyes' sides have always had a tendency to sink deeper and protect a lead, especially when against an 'on paper far superior' opponent. He''s always been a defensive manager first and foremost, the brand of football has usually although by no means always, reflected his character.

Allardyce, for all the hatred here and cruel knicknames we've adopted for him, is really very good at saving teams going down, even apparently hopeless and lost causes. His methods aren't attractive and it's often football in name only - a basic template on how to save a team of clueless players by defensive drilling, playing percentages and thorough preparation. He did do wonders in his short time at Sunderland, in fact saving them being such a remarkable feat he got the England job because of it.

This doesn't change who and what Allardyce is or the brand of football his team's more than often play.

The delusional Guardian journalist is a Sunderland fan and if he wants to paint Allardyce as some kind of badly done to Messiah while Moyes is far, far worse, then let him - he's speaking as a fan under the guise of a journalist.
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Yeah, that is what I thought. Very unprofessional.
 
Forgot he has Kevin Nolan on the coaching staff.

Theyre mates anyway after Moyes decided Nolan "wasn't that kind of player" after he basically went to end Anichebe's career.
 

If he keeps them up he’s done well. West Ham could do with someone like Moyes, they were awful under Bilic and Pellegrini and shouldn’t have sacked Moyes the first time.
 

sageyefc said:
25% win rate for the self styled ‘winner’, even if he keeps them up wouldn’t be surprised to see him sacked off
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Personally think they were wrong to sack him 2 years ago, thought he did okay and a British manager who focused on basics is what they needed.

I largely believe all of the above still applies now, just this time they'd be better trying to get Dyche who would build something. Moyes' time in the PL has come and gone, keeping him next season would be a massive gamble.
 
EFCPaul said:
Personally think they were wrong to sack him 2 years ago, thought he did okay and a British manager who focused on basics is what they needed.

I largely believe all of the above still applies now, just this time they'd be better trying to get Dyche who would build something. Moyes' time in the PL has come and gone, keeping him next season would be a massive gamble.
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Exactly my thoughts too. David Moyes did a good job in his last stay and West Ham this time were a club going downhill fast. A 25% win rate would be laughable as Liverpool manager but a West Ham heading for the buffers isn't the same. Keeping them up was asked for and it looks likely to be achieved. Dyche though looks a better prospect if they can entice him away from Turf Moor.

There is absolutely no doubt that Sean Dyche has achieved something quite remarkable at Burnley. Keeping them up and even prospering, playing their first Europa League games, and this despite the budget is both noteworthy and a very significant feat. However possibly too often there's always a thought that a manager who so obviously excels at one type of specific job could at least be worth a go at a 'better' job. David Moyes to United was maybe an example, although there are usually several mitigating circumstances and other factors that determine success or failure, you can never really be sure of one specific reason.

West Ham though do have better finances in terms of spending power, and at least in terms of ground and support if not exactly league titles, are a more traditionally established club than Burnley. They are not however a more successful club and over the years have not really achieved the success that you would normally expect from such support and backing.

To me Dyche seems ideally suited to get more for their pound of flesh so to speak, having extracted so much for Burnley from meagre resources. The club is not achieving the comfortable midtable finishes, as Burnley have done, and could even be looking higher under Dyche.
 
Del-boy said:
He’s very lucky that both Villa and Bournemouth probably won’t get another point between them.
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It can also be said those two probably won't do so because they've already played their 'winnable' fixtures and not done so, whereas West Ham have done marginally, but probably enough, better in the ones that mattered. The worst three normally go down.

It's not all decided yet snyway as even now one 'shock' result for either of those two could change it, but I don't think we'll see it tbh.
 

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