Director of Football Model

[davek]

It is true Dave. If he hadn't hit the jackpot on Lukaku there would be no profit.

Any money made on Deulofeu, Cleverley or Barry was easily cancelled out by what we lost on Kone, McCarthy, Robles, Besic, McGeady, Lennon, Tarashaj and Niasse. All of which basically left for free. That's 8 players he paid money for that we got nothing back in return for.

Take Lukaku out of it and he made a loss and a big one at that.

But why would you want to 'take out' Lukaku?

He signed him, he took the chance to invest £27M and break the club record. It paid off as a massive success: a player who got loads of goals, and we then tripled the fee received for him which was paid for him.

Why are you seeking to exclude what is the greatest bit of business since the 80s on a player? That's just churlish. And, as said, other players were sold for profit and others for a minor loss. McCarthy was the only big loss on a player £13M out and £3M back in. Just look at the massive losses we're taking on rubbish like Schneiderlin and Bolasie.

 

[Efcjake]

But why would you want to 'take out' Lukaku?

He signed him, he took the chance to invest £27M and break the club record. It paid off as a massive success: a player who got loads of goals, and we then tripled the fee received for him which was paid for him.

Why are you seeking to exclude what is the greatest bit of business since the 80s on a player? That's just churlish. And, as said, other players were sold for profit and others for a minor loss. McCarthy was the only big loss on a player £13M out and £3M back in. Just look at the massive losses we're taking on rubbish like Schneiderlin and Bolasie.

Because he's such a clear outlier and drastically skews the results.

He was the biggest expenditure we'd ever made and the market for strikers, especially at the time he was sold, is very different.

It also doesn't do anything to distract from the facts that on a singing-by-signing basis Martinez was horrific. For 1 Lukaku he lost money on another 8-10 signings. You'd slaughter Brands and Walsh for doing the same now.

It's unlikely we would be so lucky to get triple our money on Richarlison but if we sold him for double and then made a loss on everyone else you wouldn't be talking about how amazing Brands was in the transfer market.

Martinez was definitely no better than either of Brands or Walsh because he got lucky on one player out of 12 he signed.

 

[windymiller]

The DOF model only works if the DOF actually has authority. If the manager, or the owner, is permitted to overrule the DOF then the whole thing is pointless. I'm a fan of a DOF led club but they must choose all the coaches from first team down to the kids sides. They must have final say on transfer strategy and transfers. Not to sound too much like Bobby Brown Shoes or a FIFA hipster but the DOF has to decide upon the philosophy and culture of the whole club. I don't think Brands or anyone else in the role to this point has had anything like that level of authority.

 

[davek]

Because he's such a clear outlier and drastically skews the results.

He was the biggest expenditure we'd ever made and the market for strikers, especially at the time he was sold, is very different.

It also doesn't do anything to distract from the facts that on a singing-by-signing basis Martinez was horrific. For 1 Lukaku he lost money on another 8-10 signings. You'd slaughter Brands and Walsh for doing the same now.

It's unlikely we would be so lucky to get triple our money on Richarlison but if we sold him for double and then made a loss on everyone else you wouldn't be talking about how amazing Brands was in the transfer market.

Martinez was definitely no better than either of Brands or Walsh because he got lucky on one player out of 12 he signed.

You could say that about Moyes too. The £24M for Lescott was the standout profit maker in his tenure, and he was here for 11 years. The loss of money on signings were very small losses.

The bottom line is...erm...the bottom line: outgoings were less than incomings in terms of fees during his time here. We cant say that about Koeman/Walsh, Allardyce/Walsh, Silva/Brands or Ancelotti/Brands.

 

[davids]

The DOF model only works if the DOF actually has authority. If the manager, or the owner, is permitted to overrule the DOF then the whole thing is pointless. I'm a fan of a DOF led club but they must choose all the coaches from first team down to the kids sides. They must have final say on transfer strategy and transfers. Not to sound too much like Bobby Brown Shoes or a FIFA hipster but the DOF has to decide upon the philosophy and culture of the whole club. I don't think Brands or anyone else in the role to this point has had anything like that level of authority.

Problem with a DoF is that it isn't a one size fits every manager deal. I'm sure Ancelotti and Brands have a good working relationship,but if they didn't?

 

[Billy Dean]

Buying/selling players isn't the sole remit of a DoF yano.

 

[Lelouch]

While some of his signings have been underwhelming I think we're in a lot better position with him as DoF than without, I mean Silva wanted Marcus bloody Rojo on loan for god sake which could have had a domino effect on Mason Holgate not getting any game time at all this season, While Walsh was a disaster could you imagine Koeman with free reign the person who demanded Gylfi?

I think this is the reason why Brands was backing Silva's corner because he has to start over with people like Iwobi who was clearly brought for Silva's system and the #10 role and why it's pretty much a clean slate because Ancelotti plays completely different to what Silva did. We need and I'm pretty sure we will give Ancelotti and Brands multiple seasons to work together and place the pieces together to get this team on track, Ancelotti knows what he wants to build a challenging team and Brands has the player knowledge and hopefully pulling power to get the missing pieces. The role is slowly becoming one of the most important positions in Football behind the scenes due to know clever some of these people are. If every signing he made was a hit the elite teams would be in his ear all the time, We have to accept some duds will be bought along the way but hopefully less money on them duds.

 

[Lanolin]

While some of his signings have been underwhelming I think we're in a lot better position with him as DoF than without, I mean Silva wanted Marcus bloody Rojo on loan for god sake which could have had a domino effect on Mason Holgate not getting any game time at all this season, While Walsh was a disaster could you imagine Koeman with free reign the person who demanded Gylfi?

I think this is the reason why Brands was backing Silva's corner because he has to start over with people like Iwobi who was clearly brought for Silva's system and the #10 role and why it's pretty much a clean slate because Ancelotti plays completely different to what Silva did. We need and I'm pretty sure we will give Ancelotti and Brands multiple seasons to work together and place the pieces together to get this team on track, Ancelotti knows what he wants to build a challenging team and Brands has the player knowledge and hopefully pulling power to get the missing pieces. The role is slowly becoming one of the most important positions in Football behind the scenes due to know clever some of these people are. If every signing he made was a hit the elite teams would be in his ear all the time, We have to accept some duds will be bought along the way but hopefully less money on them duds.

This is the whole argument in a nutshell though. Silva can want whoever he likes, but if you're doing it properly the DoF says no mate are you having a laugh. Brands didn't though, so either he wanted Rojo too, or he was going to defer to the manager despite not thinking it was a good idea, undermining the entire point of employing him in the first place.

 

[Lelouch]

This is the whole argument in a nutshell though. Silva can want whoever he likes, but if you're doing it properly the DoF says no mate are you having a laugh. Brands didn't though, so either he wanted Rojo too, or he was going to defer to the manager despite not thinking it was a good idea, undermining the entire point of employing him in the first place.

Is this not what happened since we didn't end up with him? Various mixed reports saying United pulled it/We pulled out etc. Brands might have wanted him on loan compared to Silva who wanted him on a perm (25m or something??) too we don't know the details since he messed up in not getting a defender himself since he put all his marbles on Zouma but luckily we benefited from this with Holgate coming off better.

 

[Lanolin]

Is this not what happened since we didn't end up with him? Various mixed reports saying United pulled it/We pulled out etc. Brands might have wanted him on loan compared to Silva who wanted him on a perm (25m or something??) too we don't know the details since he messed up in not getting a defender himself since he put all his marbles on Zouma but luckily we benefited from this with Holgate coming off better.

Wll no I suppose we don't know, but then it was you who suggested we did? Can't really just blame the things we don't like the sound of on Silva and the things we do on Brands, much as it would be nice.

 

[Lelouch]

Wll no I suppose we don't know, but then it was you who suggested we did? Can't really just blame the things we don't like the sound of on Silva and the things we do on Brands, much as it would be nice.

If Brands suggested Marcus Rojo first then we are in trouble.

 

[neilsyd]

I don’t think this model has worked at Everton. A manager should come into a club with ideas for how he wants to play. This is now dictated by the DOF who has simply provided players who are not adaptable, poor in possession and have zero output in terms of goals. All this: he needs to play in a three instead of two, he needs legs alongside him, he needs to be central, he needs a decent guy in front of him, this isn’t the game for him. How about we just sign good footballers who can adapt. We make far too many excuses for poor footballers. How on earth does Andre gomes playing in a two or three, make a difference to him throwing in zero tackles in a half, or booting the ball out of play. How on earth does signing iwobi make a difference if he misplaces most passes he makes in the final third. How does sidibe miscontrol a simple pass? How does sig get away with we’ve changed the system, so it’s ok to be anonymous. Over complicating football which is a simple game. All of the above can be perfectly valid, if players kick the ball where they want it to go. When they don’t, we look for every excuse under the sun.

 

[The_La]

I think the DoF model can work, where you've got the DoF, owner/chairman and manager all in harmony.
We've basically never had that ever since we introduced a DoF.
At different times we've had the manager over-ruling the DoF, and the owner/chairman over-ruling the DoF. It just can't work like that.

Even down to the Ancelotti appointment. I'm genuinely buzzing we got him, but I don't think he'd have been Brands' choice and I think he's hinted as much.

For me Moshiri and his quest for superstars and high profile players/managers has made the DoF thing a nonsense at times. Like the desperation to try and sign Zaha - a player I don't think Brands OR Silva wanted.

 

[windymiller]

Problem with a DoF is that it isn't a one size fits every manager deal. I'm sure Ancelotti and Brands have a good working relationship,but if they didn't?

That's why the DOF should recruit the manager and it should be clear the DOF is the boss. Otherwise the system is pointless.

 

[Nymzee]

It's the only way to successfully run a football club long term.