Do we need a DOF?

[Eggsyblueskin]

Thanks for educating me. Only speaking as a life long blue who's team has turned horrific since a DOF was installed.

Team had been winning nothing for 30 years nothing to do with a DoF.
The problem with this club is the antiquated and rotten structure that has left us moribund,
Very few clubs do not employ DoFs and very few managers want to do the job of DoF.
But if you want your manager to spend his time with agents , negotiating wages , making sure the scouts in various countries are performing well, looking after the welfare of the players, overseeing that the coaches at various levels of the academy are doing their job and producing a sufficient quality through the system up to the u21 and first team level and ensuring that he has a list of his own potential successors in the event of his inevitable sacking , then fine.
Presumably while Dyche is dealing with all the footballing side of the club one of his coaches could train the team , select the players, and fine tune the tactics?

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Total control of the football side of the club. Which is what it would be. Bad idea.

The fact he doesn't knows the ins and outs of the contract situations of multiple players and can just get on with coaching the first team kind of indicates why giving Dyche in particular full control would be a bad idea.

 

[Nymzee]

So let’s look at the metrics and consider how we on the functions within their remit and how have done since the model was introduced, comparitvely to the previous model:

Recruitment of managers
Scouting.
Recruitment of players
Long term strategy
Analysis
Performance Management
Contract Management
Managing Budgets
Providing Governance of the footballing dept as a board function
Academy
Rehabilitation
Medical
Managing each dept across the footballing matrix cohesively

Stop this. You’re trying to evaluate a footballing role using one club, our horrendously run club, to determine its worth.

Do this and answer the questions for clubs like Brighton and Liverpool that also have a DoF.

 

[Neiler]

David Brent at its best

Personally I was skeptical when it was introduced mate, but I’m reflective enough to be open minded, pragmatically I want it to work - still do - I wouldnt be in the Thelwell thread throwing pelters as I appreciate it’s a two/three year job for meaningful change, I’ll give the man time and take on board what some are saying. I called Brands early mind, i could see the damage.

But thus far, has it been good or harmful, to us - it’s not gone well, I think most would accept that - but have different reason as to the the why, generally to back up a core dogmatic assumption or belief.

 

[zook]

We need a properly functioning recruitment team who fully understand what we need, how to identify the players to improve us and how to actually bring them to the club.

Clubs that aren’t basket cases off the pitch tend to have success with the DOF model. We’re ran by people who have no idea about football and seemingly can’t leave the football things to football people so employing a director of football is essentially just throwing away money.

 

[Street end man]

Team had been winning nothing for 30 years nothing to do with a DoF.
The problem with this club is the antiquated and rotten structure that has left us moribund,
Very few clubs do not employ DoFs and very few managers want to do the job of DoF.
But if you want your manager to spend his time with agents , negotiating wages , making sure the scouts in various countries are performing well, looking after the welfare of the players, overseeing that the coaches at various levels of the academy are doing their job and producing a sufficient quality through the system up to the u21 and first team level and ensuring that he has a list of his own potential successors in the event of his inevitable sacking , then fine.
Presumably while Dyche is dealing with all the footballing side of the club one of his coaches could train the team , select the players, and fine tune the tactics?

The team had been stable though through the last 30 years, before we took the DoF route.. Top half most years and Europe more than once. Not happy clapping because we're a point above the drop. It isn't working and costing a bomb.

 

[degsy]

Would anyone in their right minds not just let Dyche do his own thing now and get on with it,without hinderence from this weapon who's cost us millions and helped in putting us where we are now. Save a big wage and bin him.

Never been a fan of the DoF gig.
Managers get the sack for signing poor players- it would be a bit galling to get sacked because of somebody else's poor choices.

Owner; Why is my expensive Super Car sounding like 'kin Trabant ?

Mechanic/Coach; because when I ask for a screwdriver and DoF gets me a hammer.
When I say that's for nails not screws.

DoF says...you're supposed to be the top notch mechanic/coach - Nail / Screw same basic shape - near enough.
Fix it with the hammer.

 

[Nymzee]

Never been a fan of the DoF gig.
Managers get the sack for signing poor players- it would be a bit galling to get sacked because of somebody else's poor choices.

Owner; Why is my expensive Super Car sounding like 'kin Trabant ?

Mechanic/Coach; because when I ask for a screwdriver and DoF gets me a hammer.
When I say that's for nails not screws.

DoF says...you're supposed to be the top notch mechanic/coach - Nail / Screw same basic shape - near enough.
Fix it with the hammer.

The game is too modern not to use one. People seem to be against them but then also forget we’ve had periods like “why do we have so many number 10’s we play 4-4-2”. You sign players specifically for one manager you then need to keep hiring identical managers afterwards or require a squad overhaul.

 

[Neiler]

Never been a fan of the DoF gig.
Managers get the sack for signing poor players- it would be a bit galling to get sacked because of somebody else's poor choices.

Owner; Why is my expensive Super Car sounding like 'kin Trabant ?

Mechanic/Coach; because when I ask for a screwdriver and DoF gets me a hammer.
When I say that's for nails not screws.

DoF says...you're supposed to be the top notch mechanic/coach - Nail / Screw same basic shape - near enough.
Fix it with the hammer.

See: Silva Marco.

 

[Huyton Layne]

So let’s look at the metrics and consider how we on the functions within their remit and how have done since the model was introduced, comparitvely to the previous model:

Recruitment of managers
Scouting.
Recruitment of players
Long term strategy
Analysis
Performance Management
Contract Management
Managing Budgets
Providing Governance of the footballing dept as a board function
Academy
Rehabilitation
Medical
Managing each dept across the footballing matrix cohesively

Recruitment of managers - too many chiefs
Scouting. - Works well enough when certain people on the board don't get involved
Recruitment of players - too many chiefs
Long term strategy - too many chiefs

These 4 things weaken his ability and cloud any judgement of him.

The DoF model doesn't work with the "Owner's/Chairman's train set" model, and works even worse with the "Two fat kids fighting over the train set" model.

 

[Neiler]

Recruitment of managers - too many chiefs
Scouting. - Works well enough when certain people on the board don't get involved
Recruitment of players - too many chiefs
Long term strategy - too many chiefs

These 4 things weaken his ability and cloud any judgement of him.

The DoF model doesn't work with the "Owner's/Chairman's train set" model, and works even worse with the "Two fat kids fighting over the train set" model.

If we accept all of those things as a reality, then a DOF, doesn’t work at the club.

 

[Huyton Layne]

If we accept all of those things as a reality, then a DOF, doesn’t work at the club.

Hopefully in the future something changes and we can move into this century.

 

[Neiler]

Hopefully in the future something changes and we can move into this century.

It’s the thing with theory mate, all theories are sound until they are put into practice, the receptacle has to be there to cultivate it.

It’s why lads are confused in this thread, can a DOF model work - sure, has it worked here - no. Will it work without the right environment in place - I’d suggest unlikely - but I hope I’m wrong.

So the choice really is are you dogmatic or pragmatic.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

The team had been stable though through the last 30 years, before we took the DoF route.. Top half most years and Europe more than once. Not happy clapping because we're a point above the drop. It isn't working and costing a bomb.

First of all , that stability you value so highly won us absolutely nothing.
The fact is football has changed since the day of the all powerful manager.
Scouting alone is now of necessity a global affair, with a network of scouts to be overseen.
Players have far more power now and must be more closely looked after, new contracts negotiated in good time, agents must kept happy.
It is a fact that most of , if not all , the major football powers employ DoFs as well as many more positions such as Head of Performance.
And most modern managers expect to work with a DoF.
And actually the instability you complain about is the direct result of poor leadership, lack of vision and interference from the board room up, not the DoFs.
Of course the 30years of malign neglect along with the callous and self serving husking of the club hasn’t helped either.

 

[degsy]

The game is too modern not to use one. People seem to be against them but then also forget we’ve had periods like “why do we have so many number 10’s we play 4-4-2”. You sign players specifically for one manager you then need to keep hiring identical managers afterwards or require a squad overhaul.

Or in our case - Both.

Moshiri (and Kenwright) both forgot the 1st rule of management - you don’t keep a dog and bark yourself