I sometimes wonder if an ISIS member is really more scary than the religious right in America. It's an increasingly close run thing.
Donald Trump for President Thread
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1. Wow. A misdemeanor excludes you? Man that is really really harsh. Citizenship should be obvious. How is that a point? Just because they can't see doesn't mean they can't wear glasses/contacts. Strange one.
2. I do not listen to the NRA at all I go by what I see as a logical argument and when someone is trying to subvert a deeply held belief they won't attack it head on instead they dance around the edge until the circle gets smaller and smaller.
3. Fair enough. Was more pointing to the fact that a lot of people in favor of gun control are scarred unreasonably of gun owning Americans and mostly due to the distance between them and "the others" and it becomes more a culturally divisive point as if we needed any more of that. It seems to come from this mutual antagonism between city and rural folk.
4. Again a simple blanket term that is incredibly dismissive of the proof provided by environment and investigative journalism (a dying art). It is not fear mongering it is simply an inability by some people to come to terms with what is happening. Again I do not associate with the NRA in any way and do not draw my arguments from their line of doctrine.
@VentureBrosEFC just out of interest. If certain gun owners want to own weapons to protect themselves from the state. Who do people turn to if they're utterly petrified of people who think they need a gun to protect themselves from the state? Coz they worry me a whole lot more than the state does and the idea of them having a small arsenal is not good at all.
It is the toddlers you need to watch out for Bruce...more Americans were shot and killed by toddlers in 2015 than were killed by Islamic terrorists.
http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/
In what sense can we turn to the state? They direct the narrative and disregard our rights so I would say there is no one to turn to. Do you honestly feel that you have anything to fear from people like this? Are you part of a corrupt ruling class? Maybe (more probably) I'm giving too much intellectual credit to the others that feel the way I do but I would never start taking lives to make a point. I have a rule in life that I will never start a fight with anyone unless an egregious provocation has already happened. In the end I care little about the direction the world is going in but if you begin to annex my land which has happened a lot to neighbors of mine then there comes a point where you have to "stand your ground" so to speak unless you really just want to succumb to whatever is thrown at you. And to be clear as I feel your religious right comment was directed towards me I am a philosophical Buddhist, epiphenomenalist, who sees organized and doctrinal religions as cancerous to a certain extent (without wanting to go overboard).
1. A violent and/or theft related one, yes. You are unfit to have a gun if you are convicted of one for a certain amount of time at the very least. Being able to pass an eye test like you do at the DMV...with or without corrective lenses. If you can't pass then you shouldn't be allowed to drive and/or own a gun.
2. Your argument is the exact sort of rhetoric that the NRA would have you believe. It's insane to not want some sort of control.
3. I lived in a place called Smiley, TX for 2 years...it's in the middle of nowhere and had a population of 505. I still don't understand the harm in having everyone do a background check whether you live in NYC or Middle of Nowhere, USA. I mean just to rent a place to live or to get a job you have to have a background check performed on you in most places.
4. If you feel that disenfranchised and are that fearful of our government, I would seek asylum elsewhere. If you honestly feel you need a gun to protect yourself from the police, I'm not sure you are fit to own a gun.
1. Have you gone through the legal system? Do you understand what a misdemeanor is? For theft? Really? Jesus. Right but unless you have glaucoma or some other debilitating degenerative eye disease corrective lenses will solve that.
2. This is a problem I have with people's arguments. "Because point A is similar to an organization's point I disagree with it is invalid." Simply take the facts out of context and see that it is a likely strategy because no governments agenda is to relinquish control. It has always been and will be world over to increase control. For the record I do think the gun show loophole is problematic.
3. It's what the background check is meant to detect as you have said you would bar people from having a gun who have a theft misdemeanor. Not right as a I know a few African American people who have a permanent theft misdemeanor on their record when other white friends of mine (and myself) had ours expunged from our record so it is another way to disenfranchise black youth.
Edit: I should add the circumstances were nearly identical with no violence on either case.
4. This point would make sense if I didn't have a historical connection to the land I live on since 1861. You may feel new to this place but my family has been in the same part of the country when where we were living was barely a state. As for the second point would you tell people who feel there is a war on black youth to seek asylum elsewhere? Obviously not in most senses the same issue but you should be more careful with your line of reasoning as it seems little thought goes into what knock on effect it has.
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Actually a very good point. Harry Whittington (the guy Richard (wouldn't let me use his common more appropriate name) Cheney shot while hunting) would agree. The direction in which you point your barrel (should be at the ground until you're ready to shoot) is a huge problem I see among new gun owners.
I'm not going to argue point by point. I will only say these counterarguments are exactly why nothing gets done with enforcing some sort of gun control @The Esk.
The only point I will address is you disputing theft related misdemeanors. As you say putting controls in place with regards to guns is only the first step in outlawing them, a misdemeanor many times is the next step towards worse crime. If you are convicted of a theft related misdemeanor why would I want you to have the opportunity to own a gun to commit a gun related felony theft? In the state of California misdemeanors remain on your reportable record for 7 years. Stay clean for 7 years, and you can own a gun.
It's just like in most places for work. I have been in a position of hiring folks for the better part 30 years, and I can tell you right now that anyone that has a felony or a theft related misdemeanor on their record is simply not eligible for hire.
Sorry not everyone thinks like you. What an appalling world where "nothing can get done". The events in question Re: misdemeanors were around age 15-16 (26) and yet they are still on permanent records. Have you ever made a mistake as an undeveloped minor that followed you unreasonably? Obviously not or if you did you have no empathy for your younger self and the countless youths that slip up. Your holier than thou tone is sad. Also you're using some warped gateway drug argument twisted to fit gateway crime. Let's not address the core issues regarding the creation (<extremely specific wording alert) of actual criminals let's just assume they are bad to the core people who you can't trust to do anything, the least of which is hold down a job and be proficient in said job. Have you ever met a truly reformed convict? I assume not since if you did you would see they are more often then not better people in general than those that go about life inflicting their distorted world views upon others to the point that it hinders their livelihood instead of confronting another human being face to face and realizing who they are over extended contact.
The cousin of my sister's godson is in jail currently for armed home invasion and instead of running from the situation to avoid punishment he stayed and yelled at the cops to "just shoot me" while crying. A 19 year old. He has been shoved around houses, his mother did not want him and is a crack addict. His grandma has 12 grandchildren she is trying to take care of and couldn't help him out anymore and he has been alone since age 15. His only contact with a positive authority figure for HIS WHOLE LIFE has been my sister. But no, children like him are just criminals that would have become that way regardless of environmental circumstances.
Double edit. I'll add on to this his public defender (obviously working in conjunction with the prosectution) has put together a plea deal that is almost worse than if he went to trial but yet your callous nature has probably hardened you to the plight of these kind of people and what they go through as the system chews them up and spits them out.
Let's not get into for profit prisons then as I know you would have little meaningful input on that subject.
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Pienaar's gloves
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Feck em. If they vote for Trump then I have sympathy with the other 49%, but sadly they lost and that fella is a threat, more so than anything Islamic.
Misdemeanors remain on your reportable (ie background check reporting) for a finite amount of time. Yes they stay on your permanent criminal record, but in terms of background checks they are there for a finite amount of time...it just depends on the state in which the conviction happened on how long they remain.
Regarding the gateway drug analogy. I would submit that it is that a person that commits felony theft is far more likely to have started with smaller petty crimes. Having to wait a few years because a misdemeanor theft conviction to be able to buy a gun is not too crazy in my opinion.
You don't know me...you don't know who I know or don't know. I am only talking about the companies I've worked for regarding felonies and (very specific) theft related misdemeanors. It was company policy...sorry.
From what you are putting forth in your writing here (which you're right is all I have to go by) I can infer pretty easily what type of person you are and who you associate with just as you are within your rights to infer that I am "insane" as you have and expressed by reading what I've written so again this "you don't know me" garbage is a horrible deflection technique from what you're actually putting forward which is a load of bullpoo (a CONVICTION stays on criminal records which most people use for employment and now the prospect of teaching for sure is beyond them forever for a mistake made once 10 years ago and due to their skin color).
Regarding the gateway crime theory you didn't even address the point I made through it you simply plowed on ahead just regurgitating what you already said.
Look mate we are talking about two entirely different things here. I think owning a gun is a MASSIVE responsibility for the individual and the impact it can have on society as a whole. I simply don't think background checks are 'going too far' with regards to gun ownership.
Regarding criminals and the plight that many of them have, I have nothing but sympathy for many of them as they have been dealt a very rough hand. One of my former employees was excellent, and was trying to straighten out his life. I was about your age when I hired him, and I knew he dealt drugs prior to me hiring him. He was very lucky that he'd never been caught, and he had a kid on the way, so I thought I'd give him a chance. He did great...but after a couple of months he left to return to dealing drugs simply because he could make more money in one night than he could make every two weeks with me. I appreciated that he was up front and honest and I held no ill will towards him. Hell, he even offered to allow me to be a silent partner in his dealings. Nothing would ever come back to me except return on investment. There was a massive part of me that wanted to do it, but I just couldn't bring myself to invest in what I knew was crack at the end of the day and the lives my profits would destroy.
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