Donald Trump for President Thread

[SerenityNigh]

I've yet to hear another solution. Apart from let illegals in. Which is not a solution, it's failure.

Suppose we build a wooden badger...

 

[tsubaki]

We already have "controlled immigration." What Trump's purporting might be on that spectrum as well, but it's not acceptable to me. If you think it's a lawless free-for-all currently, you've be mesmerized by the rhetoric.

There are 500,000 illegal entries a year, though; what is worse is that the trade is largely controlled by some absolutely vile people.

 

[SerenityNigh]

This is true, but its a better policy than what they have now.

There actually is an existing policy. Some people seek to circumvent it, often because certain rules don't benefit either party, but others seem to have become US citizens despite our huge walls keeping them out.

If only we could figure out how to prevent all muslims, however, we could prevent people like these two, who apparently have actually read the US constitution.

 

[ilikecheese]

I've yet to hear another solution. Apart from let illegals in. Which is not a solution, it's failure.

Reworking our immigration laws to make it easier for folks to get into the country is not a solution? I completely disagree with you that it would be 'failure'...it would be exactly what this country has always stood for.

There are thousands of people with educations and training that get turned away every month by our laws. My friend the attorney has to jump through hoops to get engineers from abroad legally working in the Silicon Valley. Our education system simply isn't meeting the demands of the tech world.

 

[SerenityNigh]

There are 500,000 illegal entries a year, though; what is worse is that the trade is largely controlled by some absolutely vile people.

I'm not really a proponent of legalizing weed, but I understand the argument: make it legal and tax it and you take power away from the cartels. One might argue that you should instead shift supply and demand, but the basic problem is that demand exists and no workable solution includes denying the existence of demand.

It's not so different with immigration: make the path to legal work easier for both parties (the employer and employee), and fix the tax laws around such. Then you remove some power from mules and other trafficking organizations. It's not like you can ignore the huge demand for labor from American employers, and it's silly to suggest the problem stems from the immigrants.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Reworking our immigration laws to make it easier for folks to get into the country is not a solution? I completely disagree with you that it would be 'failure'...it would be exactly what this country has always stood for.

There are thousands of people with educations and training that get turned away every month by our laws. My friend the attorney has to jump through hoops to get engineers from abroad legally working in the Silicon Valley. Our education system simply isn't meeting the demands of the tech world.

Yeah, I'm ignoring the issue with H1Bs and such, but it affects highly skilled workers as much as the agricultural and construction industries.

 

[tsubaki]

There are thousands of people with educations and training that get turned away every month by our laws. My friend the attorney has to jump through hoops to get engineers from abroad legally working in the Silicon Valley. Our education system simply isn't meeting the demands of the tech world.

Perhaps it would - if those tech firms encouraged cheaper education here (or in the US) rather than evade taxes and look to import cheaper, less secure labour from abroad. A situation where students here are getting into tens (hundreds, in some case) of grand debt and then have to compete against people who do not have that hanging around their necks is not fair.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Mexico will pay.

 

[tsubaki]

I'm not really a proponent of legalizing weed, but I understand the argument: make it legal and tax it and you take power away from the cartels. One might argue that you should instead shift supply and demand, but the basic problem is that demand exists and no workable solution includes denying the existence of demand.

It's not so different with immigration: make the path to legal work easier for both parties (the employer and employee), and fix the tax laws around such. Then you remove some power from mules and other trafficking organizations. It's not like you can ignore the huge demand for labor from American employers, and it's silly to suggest the problem stems from the immigrants.

I agree - but no-one is proposing work visas like that, nor has there been any serious moves in that direction by anyone of significance. It is the status quo or putting walls up (literally in Trump's case).

 

[SerenityNigh]

Perhaps it would - if those tech firms encouraged cheaper education here (or in the US) rather than evade taxes and look to import cheaper, less secure labour from abroad. A situation where students here are getting into tens (hundreds, in some case) of grand debt and then have to compete against people who do not have that hanging around their necks is not fair.

There simply aren't enough smart Americans to satisfy the needs of global tech firms.

 

[Pettifogger]

There actually is an existing policy. Some people seek to circumvent it, often because certain rules don't benefit either party, but others seem to have become US citizens despite our huge walls keeping them out.

If only we could figure out how to prevent all muslims, however, we could prevent people like these two, who apparently have actually read the US constitution.

I simply don't think the wall is a significant priority. My primary concern would be border control from a national security perspective, not a traditional immigration one. The reality of immigration at present just isn't deserving of the rhetoric in his campaign. Curbing illegal immigration is certainly worthwhile for discussion, just not at the dominant level given in this cycle.

That said, I have no moral objection to a wall. People arguing against it on those grounds are making symbolic, and in my opinion, quite silly allegations.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I agree - but no-one is proposing work visas like that, nor has there been any serious moves in that direction by anyone of significance. It is the status quo or putting walls up (literally in Trump's case).

If the choices are:

1) Status quo
2) Building walls
3) Campaign for immigration reform that works until we get laws that make sense

Then #2 is still never the right choice

 

[roydo]

Blimey! This wall idea actually real then???

I thought it was just some nut case rhetoric ffs!

 

[SerenityNigh]

I simply don't think the wall is a significant priority. My primary concern would be border control from a national security perspective, not a traditional immigration one. The reality of immigration at present just isn't deserving of the rhetoric in his campaign. Curbing illegal immigration is certainly worthwhile for discussion, just not at the dominant level given in this cycle.

That said, I have no moral objection to a wall. People arguing against it on those grounds are making symbolic, and in my opinion, quite silly allegations.

I think I agree on all points. Maybe you'd disagree with me on the conclusions, but it seems to me that:

1) Mexicans aren't a national security threat and aren't actually all rapists, as Trump suggests
2) Cartels are a serious security threat, but (a) are known and (b) not easily controlled by walls or laws
3) Terrorists will be stopped by policing and policies, not inanimate walls
4) Walls are build to exclude and shame, and do little else

So the wall then: it's a silly, symbolic gesture that does nothing to protect the US nor its neighbors.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Blimey! This wall idea actually real then???

I thought it was just some nut case rhetoric ffs!

Both are true!