ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

[Skamp]

At partial fault for all 3 goals in the CL final.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Even the biggest WUM has got to be struggling with mental gymnastics to justify that one! Keeper throws ball at opponents leg, a worldy of an overhead kick and a speculative shot from 30 yards spilled from what was a routine save are all somehow partly attributable to VVD!

 

[Wayno]

Imagine being a Liverpool fan , signing up to an Everton forum , and referring to Liverpool as “they”

Proper creepy

 

[havrey0123]

To pop my two pennies worth on Van Dijk I do think he is one of the best centre halves in the league, which is reflexive of the world record fee they paid for him.

Alisson however is a bizarre signing. They are paying close to 70 million, for a lad who's a couple of years older than Pickford and significantly weaker than him from the little I've seen of him. He looks ok but by no means world class. I am not sure I have him in the top 5 goalkeepers in the league (De Gea, Courtois, Pickford are all better than him). You have a debate about Cech, Lloris, Schmeichel and it's a debate he doesn't fair favourably.

None of this is wise after the event either, I have put my position very clearly well before they were even linked with him. I saw a few honest reds saying they felt he was not a significant upgrade on Karius, no doubt they will be silenced by the cult when the party line is issued.

As for "doing a Leeds" as we keep saying I don't think that is the argument anyone is putting forward. What we are saying is the hundreds of millions of pounds Klopp has now spent (net, never mind gross) will need to be accounted for. I suspect some of this will be going onto the debt to push the figure beyond 300 million. Alongside this there will be an expectation to deliver from the fans.

They have assembled one of the most expensive squads in world football, and leading them to 4th again, being 20+ points off the top of the league will not be tolerated in the wider media and from sections of their own fan support.

The last time this happened, a well respected manager went out and spent huge sums on decent (though not world class players) was Benitez. It spiralled a debt crisis that led to them "doing a Leeds" but being bailed out by the Tory Establishment through the courts. They will not get so lucky a second time, the situation is radically different, in May's Tories will not get away with bailing out their favourite pet project if it gets to that situation again.

Good luck to them next season. When you spend the money he has you need to win the league. Failure to do that will potentially set a chain of events in mind that could be calamitous. They are gambling at the big stakes table now, and for their sakes I hope the numbers come in.

65 million for Allisson. It's insane.

There going to get a 61000 seater stadium at a cost of 150m as apposed to spending 500m+ for a new one.

It's a debt yes, but given the fact there turnover will increase, its not a big risk.

 

[Steve0]

Not since he arrived lol. Blimey!

Defence didn't improve though. He played 14 league games, one Fa Cup game and 6 CL Games.

He conceded 3 to an understrength West Brom team.
He kept a clean sheet against an awful Porto team.
Conceded 'one' against City but they had two (three) goals ruled out incorrectly.
Conceded 9 in the next three games.

In the league, in the 14 games they played 10 teams in the bottom half.

Of the 4 top half teams they easily lost to United.
Conceded two to Spurs and should've been more.
Lost to Chelsea.
And was lucky to keep a clean sheet against Everton.

If anyone other than Benteke was playing for Palace they'd have conceded a hatful, conceded two to West Brom.

Sorry, he just isn't that good. If he was I'd admit it. I've no problem admitting they have good players, did it at the start of last season with Can and Coutinho.

But nope, they are miles behind the two Manchester clubs and given the money they've spent that really shouldn't be the case. BIG BIG season for Klopps millionaires this year, meltdown due methinks.

 

[Steve0]

There going to get a 61000 seater stadium at a cost of 150m as apposed to spending 500m+ for a new one.

It's a debt yes, but given the fact there turnover will increase, its not a big risk.

You couldn't fill Big Stand for most games, why on earth would FSG want to increase the capacity further.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Ey, you boring Accountants chatting wham about finances do one.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Agreed on a fee £66m
This is equivalent of a mid-life crisis, https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44874142

 

[Wayno]

You couldn't fill Big Stand for most games, why on earth would FSG want to increase the capacity further.

Tbf I’m all for them expanding the stadium, I’m about a year away from getting a ST there.

My dad , 2 of my uncles and 3 of my cousins all have ST’s at anfield and make a fortune selling their seats to foreigners every week.

I’ve been on their waiting list for a bit , my lad is too lol

I genuinely hand on heart know more Evertonians with season tickets there than RS

 

[RedNotLikelyToPost]

You obviously watch us more than I do, and to be fair I don’t watch much European footy unless it’s Liverpool so I’ll cede to you on the others, without question.

The reason we’ve fallen short of winning anything (three runners up and a close second in the league) is mostly squad depth, and the fact that while we have some quality players, some teams have more.

Man for man, city are miles better, both as a First xi and as a squad. So are real, and realistically so are a few more.

It’s hard to win trophies. Not many teams do these days.

 

[Steve0]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Even the biggest WUM has got to be struggling with mental gymnastics to justify that one! Keeper throws ball at opponents leg, a worldy of an overhead kick and a speculative shot from 30 yards spilled from what was a routine save are all somehow partly attributable to VVD!

First goal he loses Benzema, literally no idea where he is, a better ball and the focus is on the overrated carthorse. If he was tighter to his man the ball wouldn't have been attempted and no brain fart from the concussed one.

Second goal, slightly harsh this one but one is wondering why a £75m defender lets one of the best players in the world wander into the penalty area completely freely. Questions should be asked. His positioning in the build up was questionable as well.

Third goal he just sort of stands about utterly clueless what to do, should've been closer to Bale, particularly when he head all that space in front of him and everyone with a passing interest in football knows (a) Bale likes to shoot and (b) is pretty good at it.

Some of that's a bit harsh but top defenders don't make those kind of errors. Fact is he's no better than Lovren or Matip, a good defender on the Phil Babb scale but no Ferdinand, Ramos or Varane I'm afraid. Not even close.

 

[No8Bally]

Far too many RS's on here these days.

 

[catcherintherye]

Different ownership. The business model is entirely different under fsg.

It's not massively though. The content is different but the form is very similar. They have proven to be more astute business operators than the last 2, had a distinctive approach to recruitment (which in truth was failing until Klopp came) but have made a good managerial appointment.

However, the debt is rising, they are putting money into the club (though they have grown the commercial brand) and like H + G if targets aren't met there will be challenges.

What did for H + G was lots of things went wrong at once. There's no guarantee the same pattern emerges, but the values they are investing will not predicate not being in the champions league for example. It's a gamble, and it may well be a very good gamble, but let's not avoid acknowledging it is a gamble.

 

[Connor]

Spending a world-record fee, close to 70 million on a 'keeper that won't even be the best in the city.

Good laugh, that.

 

[catcherintherye]

It’s this sort of classic over exaggeration that is the reason you don’t win anything. It’s stoked up by quite frankly a childish one eyed almost bigoted Liverpool favouring media but that’s no excuse for your fans to swallow it hook line and sinker every time.

Real Madrid would not swap Varane or Ramos for him. Barcelona would not swap Pique or Umtiti for him. Bayern would not swap Hummels or Boateng for him, PSG would not swap Marquinhos or Silva for him, even United wouldn’t swap Bailly for him, ask Spurs fans if they’d swap Alderweireld or Vertonghen for him. The answer is no. If he could get into any side in Europe then he wouldn’t be at one whose best achievement is coming 4th consecutively in a 6 team mini league. If Madrid or Barca thought he was better than what they had they’d be taking him off you just like they took every good player you’ve actually had rather than the imaginary world class ones you have.

In reality he is a player who had a couple of decent campaigns at Southampton, then got injured, you massively over paid for him and he’s had an ok half season with you where some moments of quality and leadership has been mixed in with poor mistakes when he’s been exposed by better opposition. This is not the profile of a world class player FFS.

When will your fans learn that lesson? If Van Dijk is class, Salah is class, Firmino is class, Mane is class, Klopp is World class then your last three league leavings wouldn’t read 8th 4th 4th with zero trophies. Name me one other team that has a world class manager and apparently 4 or 5 world class players yet comes 4th and wins nothing? None, there’s none, which leads to the conclusion every single other fan in the league has come to which is you have one exceptional player in Salah (who will need to stay at that level this season to prove this) and the rest of your players may be very good but would not get into any side in Europe. VVD is part of a Netherlands side not even at the WC, Firmino was a bench player behind a player who is on the bench for City. That is their standard. When these players get to the level your delusion thinks they are actually at you will know about it because they won’t be playing for you.

I agree with most of this post mate. The usual mental gymnastics at the cult has been to claim they were the 2nd best team last season and the only competitors to City despite spending almost the entire season outside of the top 2 and finishing 4th. No amount of concrete evidence or reality will change those feelings. They finished 2nd. Just as they won something in the champions league last season because they got to the final. They've got a cheek to talk about "winning without winning" with us, when this is all they do.

However I disagree re Van Dijk. I think he is top draw. Real Madrid wouldn't swap, and maybe Barca (or Athletico) wouldn't but I think United would and most PL teams would. Lots of their other players they over rate, but Van Dijk is a very good defender in my view.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You obviously watch us more than I do, and to be fair I don’t watch much European footy unless it’s Liverpool so I’ll cede to you on the others, without question.

The reason we’ve fallen short of winning anything (three runners up and a close second in the league) is mostly squad depth, and the fact that while we have some quality players, some teams have more.

Man for man, city are miles better, both as a First xi and as a squad. So are real, and realistically so are a few more.

It’s hard to win trophies. Not many teams do these days.

United Chelsea City Arsenal and Leicester have all won trophies whilst Klopp has been at Liverpool. Realistically only two of those teams have greater resources than you. The prevailing theme amongst a lot of the media is that Klopp is a manager on a par with Guardiola and if only he had more money he’d be winning the same amount. Looking at those trophy winners that’s not really true though is it? He may attract plaudits but he fundamentally does not get over the line when he should whereas Conte and Wenger have done (both criticised far more than Klopp despite doing far better).

Losing to Sevilla, Pellegrini’s City, the league collapse in second half of16/17, the semi final v Southampton, these are nothing to do with squad depth and all to do with a manager who is not as good as he has been made out to be.

Liverpool are the England of league football, they pump a few no marks and people get ridiculously excited and start trying to convince everyone that decent players like Lingard and Alli are suddenly as good as genuine world class talent like Kante and Mbappe. The illusion reaches fever pitch when a fortuitous cup run comes along but invariably crashes down the first time they come up against genuine quality opposition at a neutral venue.

The media should be equally as excited about Arsenal as they are about Liverpool. They have just as good a forward line and a manager who actually wins stuff rather than talking about winning stuff.