ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 2

[f.t.r.s]

What is it with the "most expensive in that position" thing? How is that relevant to anything? Utd pay £89M for Pogba & £75-90M for Lukaku but that doesn't count they were a midfielder and an attacker. You compare the transfer of Neymar to Richarlison or Ox rather than Salah as it suits your narrative.

Incidentally, Liverpool sold Coutinho for the same amount they spent on the sum of those 2 "record fee for that position" players, one of the most expensive fees for any player in any position....

Until this season, Liverpool have been sell to buy and can't compete financially with City & Utd.

This is the first time under Klopp that Liverpool have invested heavily without selling a key player. Klopp is definitely under more scrutiny now after this investment level, but is under more pressure to win one of the CL or prem than Mourinho or Guardiola who've invested very heavily every year without losing any key players?

Fit's in with the kopite mentality of 'look at me we're still relevant'
even monchi said your offer was well above market price, you over paid for virgil because if you matched city's bid he was only ever going there.
Mourinho's right, up to now klopps always had an excuse, he can't hide now, if you don't win a major trophy this year your season is a failure.

I'd love us to be in that position to tell the truth, but right now we're having to build, ideally similar to the spurs approach, buying young talented players to grow and provide resale value untill the potential becomes proven and we win something

 

[matchworks]

I actually thought the comments made by the other idiot, mocking kids not having enough food to eat and having a butler was far more disingenuous. As was his pathetic defence of Oclade Chamberlain's family, and his insulting idea that racism doesn't exist in private schools and only state schools.

Haha you absolute legend. Show me the posts where I mock children for having not enough food to eat. The remark about the cook, not the butler was as ironic as they come seeing as you labelled kopites as tories. I haven't read anything about Oxlades dad evading tax but feel free to post any links if he has. I also stated tax evaders should be prosecuted. My post included that maybe his dad felt he would receive a better education and encounter less racism ( which deplorably exists in every walk of life). I am a ragged trousered warehouseman whose family felt the full wrath of Thatcher and Howe's policies. Unlike you, I haven't been able to teach children although I applied to be a mentor in a local school but my educational qualifications didn't stretch to a degree, and seeing as I had 3 kids on the floor to feed, I had to jib that idea. Shame really as I felt I had the ability to help them. I look forward to you posting the links and another character assasi ation.

 

[Skamp]

realistically richarlison is at the point salah was when he came to chelsea, talented potential.

allison is a major risk at that price, he could do well but theres always the risk he'll flop, with the caveat that if he does perform well he'd be off to madrid in a flash.
Van dijk is a good player, but nowhere near worth the fee paid, and he has been exposed a fair few times.
As much as i hate to say it, the liverpool squad does have some quality, they will have their moments when they trounce big sides, but true to form they'll always have their west brom, burnley etc moments.
Your struggles will come from klopp who only knows one way to play, it works most of the time but thats not enough and is the reason you'll always be nearly rans.
just like winning, losing big games becomes a habit and that mentality is hard to shift, its the reason we've struggled in derbys for so long.

Maybe so, but Salah was bought for >£35m just one year ago, so a comparable fee was the point I was making.

The keeper is definitely a risk, but is the first time Liverpool have signed a high-profile keeper for a long time and is an area desperate for improvement. They had to do something and decided to make a big statement. No Liverpool fan or opposition fan would deny we needed to seriously strengthen there.

Similarly with VVD; the CB area needed to be better and whether you (maybe reasonably) argue both were overpriced, they should both prove to be significant improvements over what we had. Plus these days days, how many of any clubs biggest signings aren't seen as overpriced. I'm sure you can think of several incomings at Everton in the past 2 years that many would say the same about.

 

[Saint Domingo]

What is it with the "most expensive in that position" thing? How is that relevant to anything? Utd pay £89M for Pogba & £75-90M for Lukaku but that doesn't count they were a midfielder and an attacker. You compare the transfer of Neymar to Richarlison or Ox rather than Salah as it suits your narrative.

Incidentally, Liverpool sold Coutinho for the same amount they spent on the sum of those 2 "record fee for that position" players, one of the most expensive fees for any player in any position....

Until this season, Liverpool have been sell to buy and can't compete financially with City & Utd.

This is the first time under Klopp that Liverpool have invested heavily without selling a key player. Klopp is definitely under more scrutiny now after this investment level, but is under more pressure to win one of the CL or prem than Mourinho or Guardiola who've invested very heavily every year without losing any key players?

The argument is pretty simple, Richarlison is nowhere near the world record fee for his position so why does he have to perform at the world class level (which you are implying by saying he has to match Salah’s season, something Salah himself will struggle to do). VVD and Alisson massively blew the world record fee out the water therefore the expectation from everyone outside of Liverpool fans who can’t handle the pressure is that they perform at that level. You bring up Pogba and Lukaku, two players who spent the entirety of last season being criticised for not being good enough for the fees paid.

You have no coherent argument on this. You’ve elevated yourself to the position of expecting to win trophies through your expenditure regardless of how many seasons you’ve done it for. You can say all you want that City and United are favourites and you won’t have that pressure but if Klopp finishes without major silverware this season then questions get asked at board level undoubtedly.

 

[f.t.r.s]

Maybe so, but Salah was bought for >£35m just one year ago, so a comparable fee was the point I was making.

The keeper is definitely a risk, but is the first time Liverpool have signed a high-profile keeper for a long time and is an area desperate for improvement. They had to do something and decided to make a big statement. No Liverpool fan or opposition fan would deny we needed to seriously strengthen there.

Similarly with VVD; the CB area needed to be better and whether you (maybe reasonably) argue both were overpriced, they should both prove to be significant improvements over what we had. Plus these days days, how many of any clubs biggest signings aren't seen as overpriced. I'm sure you can think of several incomings at Everton in the past 2 years that many would say the same about.

fair point, but realistically no one expected salah to be as good as he has been, at best you'd have imagined him to be a replacement for sterling, pacy winger with 20 ish goals and assists a year.
i think we were the first to complain about the gylfi fee, we all knew he was never a £45 mill player, just like most of us think we overpaid for richarlison (only difference being a much higher potential ability)
As you say it's the way things get done these days

 

[Skamp]

I actually thought the comments made by the other idiot, mocking kids not having enough food to eat and having a butler was far more disingenuous. As was his pathetic defence of Oclade Chamberlain's family, and his insulting idea that racism doesn't exist in private schools and only state schools.

You're a poster who I generally agree with a lot of what you say, but I think you're a bit wide of the mark on this one. I don't know Oxlade-Chamberlain, but whilst plenty of players can come across as dickheads (including Liverpool players), he's always struck me as a decent guy who speaks well and is humble by many footballers standards. To say he's a self-entitled so-and-so because he went to a private school is a bit of a generalisation based on your beliefs in this area.

 

[Skamp]

fair point, but realistically no one expected salah to be as good as he has been, at best you'd have imagined him to be a replacement for sterling, pacy winger with 20 ish goals and assists a year.
i think we were the first to complain about the gylfi fee, we all knew he was never a £45 mill player, just like most of us think we overpaid for richarlison (only difference being a much higher potential ability)
As you say it's the way things get done these days

100% no-one though he'd be half the player he was last season. Luckily for you, he's a one-season wonder, one-trick pony

And yeah, the market has gone mad when average players and young players with "potential" are being sold for north of £40M, but more & more teams are guilty of it these days.

 

[catcherintherye]

Haha you absolute legend. Show me the posts where I mock children for having not enough food to eat. The remark about the cook, not the butler was as ironic as they come seeing as you labelled kopites as tories. I haven't read anything about Oxlades dad evading tax but feel free to post any links if he has. I also stated tax evaders should be prosecuted. My post included that maybe his dad felt he would receive a better education and encounter less racism ( which deplorably exists in every walk of life). I am a ragged trousered warehouseman whose family felt the full wrath of Thatcher and Howe's policies. Unlike you, I haven't been able to teach children although I applied to be a mentor in a local school but my educational qualifications didn't stretch to a degree, and seeing as I had 3 kids on the floor to feed, I had to jib that idea. Shame really as I felt I had the ability to help them. I look forward to you posting the links and another character assasi ation.

You made a complete idiot of yourself, starting waffling on about butlers and cooks and made spurious assertions about the state education sector.

You tried to be clever. A lad (now banned for his behaviour) was goading people about Oxlade Chamberlains injury. I pointed out, and maintain that while I have no desire to celebrate anyones injury I can't say I have any major sympathy for him as its not a major tragedy. You kept trying to box me into a corner to generalise from, making comments about all footballers etc.

If you think Oxlade Chamberlains dad was right to make the choices he did, good for you, but you also have to acknowledge that people will make a judgement upon that choice, particularly those who have worked within the profession and seen the sharp end of cuts and the impact on the children involved. The same government (who likely send their kids to the same schools Oxlade Chamberlains dad did) often parrot the same sort of line you did. You are entitled to your opinion, but that opinion is also open to challenge.

It's a shame you didn't study further, you seem like a bright man and I'm sure you're a great dad. If you want advice about options of studying further and what help you might be able to get I am happy to give information on PM if you so wish.

Whether serious, or meant as "banter" your comments didn't come across as particularly amusing and I can imagine most on here were a bit taken aback by them. I'd avoid doing that in future if I were you.

 

[Parker]

What is it with the "most expensive in that position" thing? How is that relevant to anything? Utd pay £89M for Pogba & £75-90M for Lukaku but that doesn't count they were a midfielder and an attacker. You compare the transfer of Neymar to Richarlison or Ox rather than Salah as it suits your narrative.

Incidentally, Liverpool sold Coutinho for the same amount they spent on the sum of those 2 "record fee for that position" players, one of the most expensive fees for any player in any position....

Until this season, Liverpool have been sell to buy and can't compete financially with City & Utd.

This is the first time under Klopp that Liverpool have invested heavily without selling a key player yet. Klopp is definitely under more scrutiny now after this investment level, but is under more pressure to win one of the CL or prem than Mourinho or Guardiola who've invested very heavily every year without losing any key players?

Fixed it for you mate.

Also in regards to VVD I think he is a brilliant player and I would've been happy Everton paying close to £70 mil on him (if we had the money for it) probably in the top 5 CB's in the prem but I also agree he is not in the elite tier like Varane, Chiellini, Boateng etc.

I might be wrong though and maybe the self proclaimed "best defender in the world" makes VVD look good in a red shirt?

 

[catcherintherye]

You're a poster who I generally agree with a lot of what you say, but I think you're a bit wide of the mark on this one. I don't know Oxlade-Chamberlain, but whilst plenty of players can come across as dickheads (including Liverpool players), he's always struck me as a decent guy who speaks well and is humble by many footballers standards. To say he's a self-entitled so-and-so because he went to a private school is a bit of a generalisation based on your beliefs in this area.

It's not how he comes accross to me mate. I've always thought he seemed a utter knob even from his time at Arsenal.

Either way There are far worse things going on in the world for me to be unduly worried about his injury. He's got a hurt leg, there's much worse happening.

 

[Skamp]

Fit's in with the kopite mentality of 'look at me we're still relevant'
even monchi said your offer was well above market price, you over paid for virgil because if you matched city's bid he was only ever going there.
Mourinho's right, up to now klopps always had an excuse, he can't hide now, if you don't win a major trophy this year your season is a failure.

I'd love us to be in that position to tell the truth, but right now we're having to build, ideally similar to the spurs approach, buying young talented players to grow and provide resale value untill the potential becomes proven and we win something

Not for me, when comparing world record transfer fees, you compare them to just that. Where do you draw the line? "We've just signed the world's most expensive left-footed, Asian left-winger, with an affro"?

If the stories are to be believed, VVD was never going to City as he wanted to go to Liverpool.

And that position of money-balling is what Liverpool have been doing for a while up to this year, where I think we've spent the benefits of having done that.

 

[Skamp]

Fixed it for you mate.

Also in regards to VVD I think he is a brilliant player and I would've been happy Everton paying close to £70 mil on him (if we had the money for it) probably in the top 5 CB's in the prem but I also agree he is not in the elite tier like Varane, Chiellini, Boateng etc.

I might be wrong though and maybe the self proclaimed "best defender in the world" makes VVD look good in a red shirt?

Lol you may be right, but hopefully not! And I think the idiot said "one of best in the world" which is equally inaccurate!

 

[Skamp]

It's not how he comes accross to me mate. I've always thought he seemed a utter knob even from his time at Arsenal.

Either way There are far worse things going on in the world for me to be unduly worried about his injury. He's got a hurt leg, there's much worse happening.

We'll agree to differ on that then. As for his injury, not sure why fans of a club care whether another club sympathises with their injured players. I know I don't.

 

[Skamp]

The argument is pretty simple, Richarlison is nowhere near the world record fee for his position so why does he have to perform at the world class level (which you are implying by saying he has to match Salah’s season, something Salah himself will struggle to do). VVD and Alisson massively blew the world record fee out the water therefore the expectation from everyone outside of Liverpool fans who can’t handle the pressure is that they perform at that level. You bring up Pogba and Lukaku, two players who spent the entirety of last season being criticised for not being good enough for the fees paid.

You have no coherent argument on this. You’ve elevated yourself to the position of expecting to win trophies through your expenditure regardless of how many seasons you’ve done it for. You can say all you want that City and United are favourites and you won’t have that pressure but if Klopp finishes without major silverware this season then questions get asked at board level undoubtedly.

There's the "for his position" again. Salah was nowhere hear the world record fee nor the world record fee "for his position"; who cares? Richarlison is comparable to Salah for similar position and fee, that's my comparison. You chose to go down the Neymar/Ox route as you lose otherwise.

I disagree with what you say, but have acknowledged that Klopp is certainly under more pressure now. But let me ask you this, if Everton spent £200M in this transfer window, would you expect them to win the prem next season?

 

[Saint Domingo]

There's the "for his position" again. Salah was nowhere hear the world record fee nor the world record fee "for his position"; who cares? Richarlison is comparable to Salah for similar position and fee, that's my comparison. You chose to go down the Neymar/Ox route as you lose otherwise.

I disagree with what you say, but have acknowledged that Klopp is certainly under more pressure now. But let me ask you this, if Everton spent £200M in this transfer window, would you expect them to win the prem next season?

Salah has massively overachieved given why you paid for him and even yoummust agree with that. No one expected that return, and I doubt tbh he’ll be able to repeat it so comparing anyone who is bought for a similar fee to his one season is stupid and is in no way comparable to me saying that VVD should be at the same level as the world’s top CB seeing as you paid a world record fee for him.

It’s not about Everton (hence the the thread title). We don’t go around telling anyone who will listen that we play the best football in Europe, that we have the best manager in the world, that we have best forward in the world, we don’t flood online votes to make sure or manager who has won nothing wins a pool for world’s best manager, we don’t go around saying our centreback is a rolls Royce, or that if x player hadn’t have been red carded or had joined earlier that youd have won the league last season.

I don’t think you’ll be anywhere near the league as you weren’t last season because Mourinho and Guardiola both have far better players and are far better managers but as a club you’ve backed yourself into the position where you’ll be expected to challenge for it nevertheless because you’ve spent so long banging on about yourselves desperate to be relevant and the centre of attention that now it’s finally time to put up or shut up once and for all. If you’re as good as you all bang on about 24/7 down every media channel possible go and win it then.

‘Oh no we’re not favourites because United and City have spent more money than us but we are better than them but that doesn’t mean we’re expected to win it’ hypocritical biffs.