ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[catcherintherye]

City’s excuses were credible last season. Kompany left and wasn’t replaced, Laporte got an injury so they had no credible CB pairing. Aguero was injured for long periods, Sane was crocked, and Silva declined hugely. They also had the realisation that they weren’t winning the league as early as November and that fixed game at Anfield and focussed on the CL. Despite that they still posted a low 80s points tally. They essentially lost 4 of their best players and had the refs against them all season.

Apart from Van Dijk and Gomez, Liverpool haven’t lost any of their players from last season. Indeed they’ve actually strengthened by getting Thiago Minamino Jota and Tsimikas in with Oxlade Chamberlain returning and losing no key players.

It’s effectively the same team just missing two centrebacks. They’ve not even been that bad defensively though, and the loss of two players to injury doesn’t explain how a team can go from having what looks like the best player in the world in every position to Alexander Arnold looking like he’s won a competition to play football and Firmino looking like a bum. This is not a natural decline in a team, they’re looking at dropping from almost 100 points pace to mid 70s, freakishly mirroring their sudden rapid improvement 2 seasons ago. Which is convenient seeing as 2 seasons is the generally accepted limit that a team can supplement for before long term damage to players.

People will always deny it and it will never be proven that they doped but this has always been a bang average Liverpool team without any of the ingredients to win a league.

World class keeper - fair enough they had this

Defence - They had a kid at RB, a bloke from Southampton next to another kid at CB, and a player from Hull at left back,

Midfield - none of their midfielders score more than about 3 a season, none would be at the top of the assists charts

Striker - no natural number 9 you can bank on for 20 a season

You then looked at their squad depth and they had no decent cover for any single position on the pitch except perhaps midfield.

That is never a title winning formula even if the target was low 80s. It was never ever close to a formula for getting 90 plus points, but it was certainly nowhere near a set up that could go to almost 100 points for two seasons in a row! They were battering everyone home and away barely conceding a shot on target. The consistency of performances for two seasons was identical every single week from every single player. No one had a bad game, no one had injuries, no one got tired, no one player dropped their level ever. It was only an extremely fortuitous performance by Atletico, with some world class keeping by Oblak, and a howler by Adrian, that cost them winning two CLs in a row and a third final in three seasons.

They doped, it’s as clear as day, this team was a Frankenstein monster, James Milner trampling all over the likes of Kante and De Bruyne, their B team thrashing Barca 4-0 despite playing a few days earlier when Barca had rested. A sudden shoot up in performance levels to a level they’d never been at and now it’s all coming crashing back down.

Even before his injury Van Dijk was all over the shop. Patrick Balford embarassed him on opening day and then Villa made him look like a clown. Alexander Arnold has gone from being the best player in the world to arguably the weakest right back in the top 6. Their midfield now looks like the collection of average cloggers it is struggling to create. The front three have gone from the world’s best forward players to struggling to hit a barn door. Players don’t just all improve at the same time, and all decline at the same time.

They doped, and the league didn’t want City dominance so skewed VAR in their favour (in much the same way it a probably in United’s favour now). That is the story of the 2019/20 season. If people honestly believe that a bit of novel kick and rush tactics is enough to bypass all the limitations of that squad for 2 seasons in a way no other team in history has managed then that’s up to them but I’ve never seen anything like this team anywhere else and the rise and falls in form are comeltlelly an utterly unnatural .

Is it just not easier to state;
1) It's an older squad- the 5th oldest in the league this season
2) They've had no pre-season (which is critical for their intensity based manager)
3) Their manager has 1 way of playing, which while effective the players cannot carry out for him due to age/fatigue (short and long term).
4) They've lost their best player to injury, who will not return the same player he was?

 

[Saint Domingo]

If they are doping, why have they stopped, and why won't they just start again?

Apparently athletes have to cycle off them eventually and 2-3 years seems to be the maximum period for a cycle. My worry is they will start again, I think they stopped during the last lockdown as soon as they were out of the CL. They lost to a terrible Watford team, dropped points at home to Burnley, somehow lost to Arsenal, got battered by a poor City team, and were close to losing to a midfield of Davie and Sigurdsson. Everyone laughed it off as ‘they’ve got no motivation’ but that exact team was miles on track for every single premier league record, had dropped only two points all season before lockdown, could have been invincibles, centurions, and then let it all slip away. Or so we were told. They’ve now started this season in pretty much the same form. My worry is that Klopp knew he had to cycle off at some point so as soon as they were out the CL he stopped it, maybe thinking that they could start up the latter half of this year for another CL run or if they’re still within touching distance of the title.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this lot start to resemble a basket case and then suddenly from nowhere go back to winning 15 in a row again and smashing teams left right and centre. ‘Lad it was because we got Jota back’

 

[degsy]

Yes I know I chopped loads out...
...You then looked at their squad depth and they had no decent cover for any single position on the pitch except midfield
...Their midfield now looks like the collection of average cloggers it is struggling to create. The front three have gone from the world’s best forward players to struggling to hit a barn door. Players don’t just all improve at the same time, and all decline at the same time.

Everton 69, 70, 71 were a similar, but not exact, rise and fall, so it can happen.

 

[mahermi1]

I know I'm probably biased but, I don't think that was a penalty.
KWP and Mane did make contact but, not enough for Mane to go down or did it stop him running. After the contact Mane took a step or two then realised he couldn't get to the ball before it went out of play, so dived.
After all the talk about liverpool missing so many players not heard much about Saints missing 4 or 5 starters from last nights team!

Sickening thing again about that non challenge on Mane, where yet again he threw himself to the ground. Was Martin Tyler, "I've seen them given" absolutely pathetic, Tyler makes no attempt at all to hide his allegiance to everything about Liverpool. The man might as well put the kit on and hold a Liverpool flag.

 

[catcherintherye]

Apparently athletes have to cycle off them eventually and 2-3 years seems to be the maximum period for a cycle. My worry is they will start again, I think they stopped during the last lockdown as soon as they were out of the CL. They lost to a terrible Watford team, dropped points at home to Burnley, somehow lost to Arsenal, got battered by a poor City team, and were close to losing to a midfield of Davie and Sigurdsson. Everyone laughed it off as ‘they’ve got no motivation’ but that exact team was miles on track for every single premier league record, had dropped only two points all season before lockdown, could have been invincibles, centurions, and then let it all slip away. Or so we were told. They’ve now started this season in pretty much the same form. My worry is that Klopp knew he had to cycle off at some point so as soon as they were out the CL he stopped it, maybe thinking that they could start up the latter half of this year for another CL run or if they’re still within touching distance of the title.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this lot start to resemble a basket case and then suddenly from nowhere go back to winning 15 in a row again and smashing teams left right and centre. ‘Lad it was because we got Jota back’

I mean maybe. They lost to Watford before they went out of the CL though.

I mean I'm not sure why you would cycle off the drugs, and cycle off them at that moment.

 

[jonnyboy316]

City’s excuses were credible last season. Kompany left and wasn’t replaced, Laporte got an injury so they had no credible CB pairing. Aguero was injured for long periods, Sane was crocked, and Silva declined hugely. They also had the realisation that they weren’t winning the league as early as November and that fixed game at Anfield and focussed on the CL. Despite that they still posted a low 80s points tally. They essentially lost 4 of their best players and had the refs against them all season.

Apart from Van Dijk and Gomez, Liverpool haven’t lost any of their players from last season. Indeed they’ve actually strengthened by getting Thiago Minamino Jota and Tsimikas in with Oxlade Chamberlain returning and losing no key players.

It’s effectively the same team just missing two centrebacks. They’ve not even been that bad defensively though, and the loss of two players to injury doesn’t explain how a team can go from having what looks like the best player in the world in every position to Alexander Arnold looking like he’s won a competition to play football and Firmino looking like a bum. This is not a natural decline in a team, they’re looking at dropping from almost 100 points pace to mid 70s, freakishly mirroring their sudden rapid improvement 2 seasons ago. Which is convenient seeing as 2 seasons is the generally accepted limit that a team can supplement for before long term damage to players.

People will always deny it and it will never be proven that they doped but this has always been a bang average Liverpool team without any of the ingredients to win a league.

World class keeper - fair enough they had this

Defence - They had a kid at RB, a bloke from Southampton next to another kid at CB, and a player from Hull at left back,

Midfield - none of their midfielders score more than about 3 a season, none would be at the top of the assists charts

Striker - no natural number 9 you can bank on for 20 a season

You then looked at their squad depth and they had no decent cover for any single position on the pitch except perhaps midfield.

That is never a title winning formula even if the target was low 80s. It was never ever close to a formula for getting 90 plus points, but it was certainly nowhere near a set up that could go to almost 100 points for two seasons in a row! They were battering everyone home and away barely conceding a shot on target. The consistency of performances for two seasons was identical every single week from every single player. No one had a bad game, no one had injuries, no one got tired, no one player dropped their level ever. It was only an extremely fortuitous performance by Atletico, with some world class keeping by Oblak, and a howler by Adrian, that cost them winning two CLs in a row and a third final in three seasons.

They doped, it’s as clear as day, this team was a Frankenstein monster, James Milner trampling all over the likes of Kante and De Bruyne, their B team thrashing Barca 4-0 despite playing a few days earlier when Barca had rested. A sudden shoot up in performance levels to a level they’d never been at and now it’s all coming crashing back down.

Even before his injury Van Dijk was all over the shop. Patrick Balford embarassed him on opening day and then Villa made him look like a clown. Alexander Arnold has gone from being the best player in the world to arguably the weakest right back in the top 6. Their midfield now looks like the collection of average cloggers it is struggling to create. The front three have gone from the world’s best forward players to struggling to hit a barn door. Players don’t just all improve at the same time, and all decline at the same time.

They doped, and the league didn’t want City dominance so skewed VAR in their favour (in much the same way it a probably in United’s favour now). That is the story of the 2019/20 season. If people honestly believe that a bit of novel kick and rush tactics is enough to bypass all the limitations of that squad for 2 seasons in a way no other team in history has managed then that’s up to them but I’ve never seen anything like this team anywhere else and the rise and falls in form are comeltlelly an utterly unnatural .

Good post. I recall reading a good article on the Athletic about the rebuild they face. In their favour they do appear to have the structure behind the scenes to identify talent and as the best team in the league are an attractive proposition. Working against them is the current economic climate due to Covid reducing the market for their ageing stars. Like you I think they have left it too late to cash in on Mane/Salah so will be interesting to see how this works out. With the exception of their home town hero Stevie G they have always cashed in on their big stars (Suarez, Coutinho, Torres, Alonso etc..). On the plus side for them Jota looks good and it would nor surprise if they return to Wolves for Neto who would fit the profile.

VVD is a massive loss not just defensively but also as a set piece threat. I never felt Saints were going to concede from corners yesterday. Will be interesting to see if he can fully recover from that injury when he returns next season

 

[brieverton]

If there was doping, I'd find it hard to believe that it was, is, and could be left uncovered to such an extent.

There would always be at least one person with a personal agenda to act as a whistleblower.

There would be more than a whiff of it doing the rounds. I accept football is riven with sycophantic journalists but I'm sure there would be at least one willing to call it out, to the extent of the exposé on Lance Armstrong, for example.

If LFC were doing something co-ordinated on these lines, then its been done sufficiently well to avoid any serious scrutiny.

I look at them over the last few years, and reluctantly say that the sum is much, much greater than the individual parts.

We need to focus on ourselves. Denying that they have been an exceptionally good side does nothing to further our own ambitions, to the extent we have any.

 

[degsy]

...They need a new right back really, and if I were them I'd be giving Norwich what they wanted for Max Aarons.

Which is exactly what we should be doing

 

[degsy]

I know I'm probably biased but, I don't think that was a penalty.
KWP and Mane did make contact but, not enough for Mane to go down or did it stop him running. After the contact Mane took a step or two then realised he couldn't get to the ball before it went out of play, so dived.
After all the talk about liverpool missing so many players not heard much about Saints missing 4 or 5 starters from last nights team!

Hats off to Ade Edmonton and the Blackadder IV writers, nailed him good, 30yrs early

 

[saintquin]

Sickening thing again about that non challenge on Mane, where yet again he threw himself to the ground. Was Martin Tyler, "I've seen them given" absolutely pathetic, Tyler makes no attempt at all to hide his allegiance to everything about Liverpool. The man might as well put the kit on and hold a Liverpool flag.

Yeah you hear that all the time. That doesn't mean it should be given now or should have been given then.
Probably means it shouldn't have been on previous ones.
I don't mind the liverpool bias on the box as it makes it more enjoyable when we do beat them but, they would at least acknowledge there are two teams playing a game of football. Mind that could be said about all the so called big clubs playing against the so called smaller clubs!

 

[Tipp blue]

If there was doping, I'd find it hard to believe that it was, is, and could be left uncovered to such an extent.

There would always be at least one person with a personal agenda to act as a whistleblower.

There would be more than a whiff of it doing the rounds. I accept football is riven with sycophantic journalists but I'm sure there would be at least one willing to call it out, to the extent of the exposé on Lance Armstrong, for example.

If LFC were doing something co-ordinated on these lines, then its been done sufficiently well to avoid any serious scrutiny.

I look at them over the last few years, and reluctantly say that the sum is much, much greater than the individual parts.

We need to focus on ourselves. Denying that they have been an exceptionally good side does nothing to further our own ambitions, to the extent we have any.

Not all doping is against the rules.

Why Liverpool won’t win the Premier League this season

Alan Moore discusses the reasons why he believes that Liverpool will not retain their Premier League title this coming season.

backpagefootball.com

 

[Moonlight dribbler]

Apparently athletes have to cycle off them eventually and 2-3 years seems to be the maximum period for a cycle. My worry is they will start again, I think they stopped during the last lockdown as soon as they were out of the CL. They lost to a terrible Watford team, dropped points at home to Burnley, somehow lost to Arsenal, got battered by a poor City team, and were close to losing to a midfield of Davie and Sigurdsson. Everyone laughed it off as ‘they’ve got no motivation’ but that exact team was miles on track for every single premier league record, had dropped only two points all season before lockdown, could have been invincibles, centurions, and then let it all slip away. Or so we were told. They’ve now started this season in pretty much the same form. My worry is that Klopp knew he had to cycle off at some point so as soon as they were out the CL he stopped it, maybe thinking that they could start up the latter half of this year for another CL run or if they’re still within touching distance of the title.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this lot start to resemble a basket case and then suddenly from nowhere go back to winning 15 in a row again and smashing teams left right and centre. ‘Lad it was because we got Jota back’

Fwiw I think they are legal but the nutrition is second to none. It is superior to others and they are definitely using everything within their powers. I read 3/4 of their squad are classed as asthmatic and using Salbutamol. They are also using nutritionalists that have worked with the German Olympic team. Those same nutritionalists have achieved incredible results. Mark Warnecke was a world swimming champion at 35 he then worked with Dara Torres who had 7 years out of swimming, and made the US olympic team at 41. All credit to the 'secret drink'.

Heard the cycle thing before but why not have the squad staggered. I also think their are no whistle blowers because even the squad would be unaware of illegalities. Certainly fascinating stuff.

One thing for certain the pre match meal is not steak and chips followed by 6 pints of guiness after the match in the bar.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

City’s excuses were credible last season. Kompany left and wasn’t replaced, Laporte got an injury so they had no credible CB pairing. Aguero was injured for long periods, Sane was crocked, and Silva declined hugely. They also had the realisation that they weren’t winning the league as early as November and that fixed game at Anfield and focussed on the CL. Despite that they still posted a low 80s points tally. They essentially lost 4 of their best players and had the refs against them all season.

Apart from Van Dijk and Gomez, Liverpool haven’t lost any of their players from last season. Indeed they’ve actually strengthened by getting Thiago Minamino Jota and Tsimikas in with Oxlade Chamberlain returning and losing no key players.

It’s effectively the same team just missing two centrebacks. They’ve not even been that bad defensively though, and the loss of two players to injury doesn’t explain how a team can go from having what looks like the best player in the world in every position to Alexander Arnold looking like he’s won a competition to play football and Firmino looking like a bum. This is not a natural decline in a team, they’re looking at dropping from almost 100 points pace to mid 70s, freakishly mirroring their sudden rapid improvement 2 seasons ago. Which is convenient seeing as 2 seasons is the generally accepted limit that a team can supplement for before long term damage to players.

People will always deny it and it will never be proven that they doped but this has always been a bang average Liverpool team without any of the ingredients to win a league.

World class keeper - fair enough they had this

Defence - They had a kid at RB, a bloke from Southampton next to another kid at CB, and a player from Hull at left back,

Midfield - none of their midfielders score more than about 3 a season, none would be at the top of the assists charts

Striker - no natural number 9 you can bank on for 20 a season

You then looked at their squad depth and they had no decent cover for any single position on the pitch except perhaps midfield.

That is never a title winning formula even if the target was low 80s. It was never ever close to a formula for getting 90 plus points, but it was certainly nowhere near a set up that could go to almost 100 points for two seasons in a row! They were battering everyone home and away barely conceding a shot on target. The consistency of performances for two seasons was identical every single week from every single player. No one had a bad game, no one had injuries, no one got tired, no one player dropped their level ever. It was only an extremely fortuitous performance by Atletico, with some world class keeping by Oblak, and a howler by Adrian, that cost them winning two CLs in a row and a third final in three seasons.

They doped, it’s as clear as day, this team was a Frankenstein monster, James Milner trampling all over the likes of Kante and De Bruyne, their B team thrashing Barca 4-0 despite playing a few days earlier when Barca had rested. A sudden shoot up in performance levels to a level they’d never been at and now it’s all coming crashing back down.

Even before his injury Van Dijk was all over the shop. Patrick Balford embarassed him on opening day and then Villa made him look like a clown. Alexander Arnold has gone from being the best player in the world to arguably the weakest right back in the top 6. Their midfield now looks like the collection of average cloggers it is struggling to create. The front three have gone from the world’s best forward players to struggling to hit a barn door. Players don’t just all improve at the same time, and all decline at the same time.

They doped, and the league didn’t want City dominance so skewed VAR in their favour (in much the same way it a probably in United’s favour now). That is the story of the 2019/20 season. If people honestly believe that a bit of novel kick and rush tactics is enough to bypass all the limitations of that squad for 2 seasons in a way no other team in history has managed then that’s up to them but I’ve never seen anything like this team anywhere else and the rise and falls in form are comeltlelly an utterly unnatural .

Bravo!
Take a bow. That is a superb post and encapsulates things perfectly.
As you say the drop off in form really is astounding. Why is no one
in the media saying what you are?

 

[brigadier]

I'll be done with football if United win the league, I could stomach Liverpool winning it last season, they dominated games and in fairness they were the best team by far last season, what I won't be able to deal with is a mid table United team being dragged to the top because it's more profitable for the PL.

Same as last season, funny how people forget how mid table liverpool looked for the first half of the season and city was refereed into oblivion, apart from man u I dont think there was a team that didn't have issues with liverpool's refs, I know we should of had 2 penalties and robertson and trent should of seen red , that game was classed as well refereed.
As for man u they decent on a good day.

 

[brigadier]

Ireland.. over the 20 odd years of United dominance their fans here were far more obnoxious than Liverpool fans ever were, they are coming out of the woodwork again after hiding for a few years. I'd honestly rather see Liverpool win it than United.

I'd take obnoxious over violent and thuggish any day of the week.