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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

I've said this before Milner was an average player in his prime at Villa, City and his early days at Liverpool, yet he has somehow started playing his best football in his 30s. You can see with players like Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Vidic and even Gary Neville that players simply can't keep up with pace. Milner's success in recent years just don't make sense, same with Henderson, TAA, Robertson and Salah. As Roy Keane said it usually takes defenders years to become world class, TAA and Robertson have seemingly done it overnight.

It works the other way as well. Coutinho was pretty average until Klopp came along, sometimes he didn’t even make the Brazilian national team. All of a sudden he then hit an astonishing level where he started to be genuinely compared to the likes of Messi and being talked about as more important than Neymar to the Brazilian team. He then gets an eye watering move to Barcelona where surrounded by better players he suddenly becomes so poor that they loan him out to Bayern who also deem him not good enough for their first team. How do you go from one of the best in the world to fodder in less than a season? Who knows where Emre Can is now but he’s also dropped like a stone from the midfielder Juve moved to get.

The ones that get me the most are the front three though. For other players of that level they’ve been at (Neymar, Messi, Mbappe, Hazard, Ronaldo Rooney Aguero Bale etc. The real best in the world level) the talent of these players is obvious even as a teenager. You can see there’s something special in them and if they fulfill it they’re usually world class by their early 20s regardless of the club they’re at or the pathway they got there. There’s not a single world class forward in that highest bracket I can think of that you didn’t look at at about 23 and think ‘he’s world class’. Even Lukaku who is a level below that was a top player by 20.

Then you get to Liverpool who take a guy from Southampton who was pretty good in his mid 20s, a player who couldn’t make it at Chelsea, and ended up at Roma and was again just pretty good in his mid 20s, and a striker from Hoffenheim who Rodgers couldn’t get a tune out of and was also in his mid 20s and looked ok, and overnight all three of them became not only very good but arguably the three best forwards in world football all at the same time and maintained that level for 2 and a half seasons (at the same time as Coutinho also hit that level)

Seriously though, what other club has this ever happened at? The top clubs weren’t interested in any of these players. So the same scouts who sweep up without fail the likes of Neymar and Messi as teenagers from South America, who saw Ronaldo at Lisbon etc. Not one of these scouts thought Mane or Firmino were good enough for a top club to part coin with even up to their mid 20s when both had been playing in Europe. Chelsea had taken a chance on Salah but was obviously deemed to be not good enough to get Schurrle out the team and only Roma were interested when he was sold.

Yet lo and behold the rest of Europe was wrong and Klopp was right and there were three world class forwards all in their prime all available at market rate that no other top club had noticed. What a genius he is.

Oh and they just happened to arrive as Coutinho went from being so so to having two seasons of also being the best in the world before going back to being so so. Also at exactly the same time that Alexander Arnold came from complete obscurity to be the best right back in the world. At the same time Van Dijk went from Southampton sick note to best in the world, at the same time Wijnaldum went from Newcastle layabout who didn’t turn up away from home to one of the best in the world. What an amazing coincidence to have so many players have a meteoric rise in form all at the same time despite never showing those levels at any other time in their career. Amazing.

Give over. The likes of PSG Madrid and Barca struggle to put a team like that together once in a generation even with unlimited money and their pick of players. Madrid needed Ronaldo Ramos Kroos Modric Bale, literally a collection of the greatest players in the world and some of the best of all time, just to edge a game against the likes of Milner Henderson and Lallana.

No amount of kick and rush tactics or man management or novel fitness regimes can cause that. They doped all of them. You’ll never see the likes of this again and as soon as Klopp leaves the likes of TAA Robertson Gomez Fabinho Jota instead of looking like the best in the world in their positions will suddenly seem like complete carthorses. They’ll end up exactly like Mario Gotze, Niro Sahin, Grosskreutz, Kagawa, Subotic, in that everyone will remember the couple of seasons they were world class then completely disappeared.
 

Agreed, but Man U are next on my list of obnoxious showers! The sense of entitlement that both sets of “supporters” spout is beyond belief!
In primary and secondary school, it was Man U fans all over the place! In primary school the only non United fans in the class, were myself and a Nottingham Forest fan. In secondary school the non United supporting contingent in the class, consisted of myself and the Forest fan again, the one Villa fan, the one Geordie and the one lone and solitary rs. I actually got on very well with the rs fan, despite the team he supported! So yes in that environment, you would develop bit of a dislike of Manchester United.
 
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In primary and secondary school, it was Man U fans all over the place! In primary school the only non United fans in the class, were myself and a Nottingham Forest fan. In secondary school the non United supporting contingent in the class, consisted of myself and the Forest fan again, the one Villa fan, the one Geordie and the one lone and solitary rs.I actually got on very well with the rs fan, despite the team he supported! So yes in that environment, you would develop bit of a dislike of Manchester United.

A bit like supporting the Yankee's in America.

Most baseball fans hate them.
 
It works the other way as well. Coutinho was pretty average until Klopp came along, sometimes he didn’t even make the Brazilian national team. All of a sudden he then hit an astonishing level where he started to be genuinely compared to the likes of Messi and being talked about as more important than Neymar to the Brazilian team. He then gets an eye watering move to Barcelona where surrounded by better players he suddenly becomes so poor that they loan him out to Bayern who also deem him not good enough for their first team. How do you go from one of the best in the world to fodder in less than a season? Who knows where Emre Can is now but he’s also dropped like a stone from the midfielder Juve moved to get.

The ones that get me the most are the front three though. For other players of that level they’ve been at (Neymar, Messi, Mbappe, Hazard, Ronaldo Rooney Aguero Bale etc. The real best in the world level) the talent of these players is obvious even as a teenager. You can see there’s something special in them and if they fulfill it they’re usually world class by their early 20s regardless of the club they’re at or the pathway they got there. There’s not a single world class forward in that highest bracket I can think of that you didn’t look at at about 23 and think ‘he’s world class’. Even Lukaku who is a level below that was a top player by 20.

Then you get to Liverpool who take a guy from Southampton who was pretty good in his mid 20s, a player who couldn’t make it at Chelsea, and ended up at Roma and was again just pretty good in his mid 20s, and a striker from Hoffenheim who Rodgers couldn’t get a tune out of and was also in his mid 20s and looked ok, and overnight all three of them became not only very good but arguably the three best forwards in world football all at the same time and maintained that level for 2 and a half seasons (at the same time as Coutinho also hit that level)

Seriously though, what other club has this ever happened at? The top clubs weren’t interested in any of these players. So the same scouts who sweep up without fail the likes of Neymar and Messi as teenagers from South America, who saw Ronaldo at Lisbon etc. Not one of these scouts thought Mane or Firmino were good enough for a top club to part coin with even up to their mid 20s when both had been playing in Europe. Chelsea had taken a chance on Salah but was obviously deemed to be not good enough to get Schurrle out the team and only Roma were interested when he was sold.

Yet lo and behold the rest of Europe was wrong and Klopp was right and there were three world class forwards all in their prime all available at market rate that no other top club had noticed. What a genius he is.

Oh and they just happened to arrive as Coutinho went from being so so to having two seasons of also being the best in the world before going back to being so so. Also at exactly the same time that Alexander Arnold came from complete obscurity to be the best right back in the world. At the same time Van Dijk went from Southampton sick note to best in the world, at the same time Wijnaldum went from Newcastle layabout who didn’t turn up away from home to one of the best in the world. What an amazing coincidence to have so many players have a meteoric rise in form all at the same time despite never showing those levels at any other time in their career. Amazing.

Give over. The likes of PSG Madrid and Barca struggle to put a team like that together once in a generation even with unlimited money and their pick of players. Madrid needed Ronaldo Ramos Kroos Modric Bale, literally a collection of the greatest players in the world and some of the best of all time, just to edge a game against the likes of Milner Henderson and Lallana.

No amount of kick and rush tactics or man management or novel fitness regimes can cause that. They doped all of them. You’ll never see the likes of this again and as soon as Klopp leaves the likes of TAA Robertson Gomez Fabinho Jota instead of looking like the best in the world in their positions will suddenly seem like complete carthorses. They’ll end up exactly like Mario Gotze, Niro Sahin, Grosskreutz, Kagawa, Subotic, in that everyone will remember the couple of seasons they were world class then completely disappeared.
Excellent point players like Stones, Barkley, Lukaku even Deulofeu showed hints they had the possibility of being top class players, but for whatever reason it hasn't happened really. Henry changed because of the way Wenger played him, but he was far far better than Mane, Bergkamp was quality, players like Drogba and even Torres showed their quality at an early age. Everybody had heard of Aguero and Dzeko was pretty well known in Germany, Larsson did great at Celtic, you could still see Eto's quality when he came to us.

Also the argument that it's Klopps management doesn't make sense, he lost 2 finals in his first season, had an average 2nd season, they were very lucky Napoli failed to beat Red Star away that got them through the group stage eventually to the final, so his world class managerial skills can't explain their success. When City came to GP in 2018 you could tell they were far better than us, we couldn't get near them, same with most teams they played that season they beat the RS 5-0, beat Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and United away from home.

The RS weren't that good if we had sacked Silva before the derby at Anfield and had Dunc in charge we'd of probably got a point, I was amazed at how average they were at GP, considering how awful we were then. A lot of the games they won due to VAR decisions or individual mistakes rather than their quality. A United team containing VDS, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Scholes, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Giggs, Ronaldo, Nani, Rooney Tevez and Berbatov lost 4-1 to the RS at Old Trafford in 2009 and the RS still didn't win the league. It's not even about hating them, their teams in 2008/2009 and 2013/2014 were better than the team they had last season. Alonso, Gerrard and Macherano are better than anyone is their current midfield, their front 3 in 2013/2014 were better than the current 3.
 

In primary and secondary school, it was Man U fans all over the place! In primary school the only non United fans in the class, were myself and a Nottingham Forest fan. In secondary school the non United supporting contingent in the class, consisted of myself and the Forest fan again, the one Villa fan, the one Geordie and the one lone and solitary rs. I actually got on very well with the rs fan, despite the team he supported! So yes in that environment, you would develop bit of a dislike of Manchester United.
Are you suggesting that the Irish are gloryhunters?
 
I lived in Dublin at that time so I know. There were also a load of RS fans though.
Of course there would be. The RS and Man United, are by far the most supported teams in Ireland. In my schools as referenced earlier, United were the team with the most fans, by quite a substantial margin. I would imagine it was similar, for anyone else going through the irish/uk schooling system, from the early nineties until around the early to mid noughties.
 

I've said this before Milner was an average player in his prime at Villa, City and his early days at Liverpool, yet he has somehow started playing his best football in his 30s. You can see with players like Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Vidic and even Gary Neville that players simply can't keep up with pace. Milner's success in recent years just don't make sense, same with Henderson, TAA, Robertson and Salah. As Roy Keane said it usually takes defenders years to become world class, TAA and Robertson have seemingly done it overnight.
I’m concerned we are turning in to conspiracy theorists.
milner was never average at villa. That’s why Man City bought him. He was an important squad player for city. And has been a little more then important squad player for Liverpool. Not sure he is first 11 for them these days. He is dependable.
He doesn’t drink, does yoga.
not really a poster boy PEDS.
I wouldn’t be surprised if peds are widely used in football. I doubt one team has more than others. If this was legal other teams would follow suit and they have done nothing wrong. If it’s illegal doing, It’s unlikely that Liverpool could colude with the premier league and uefa to pull this off.
 
"The clamour for Liverpool to strengthen in the January window continues to grow.

Defensive injuries have left them without a recognised senior centre-back at a time when their Premier League title hopes have been hit by a concerning dip in form. Midfielders Fabinho and Jordan Henderson are being utilised as makeshift defenders.

However, there’s no sign of incoming reinforcements, with senior Anfield sources adamant that there are unlikely to be any new additions to Jurgen Klopp’s squad this month.

With Premier League and Champions League glory on the line over the coming months, it would be a gamble for Liverpool not to bolster their back line given the season-wrecking knee injuries suffered by Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez. Joel Matip, who is currently sidelined by a groin problem, has also had a succession of fitness issues. Rookies Nathaniel Phillips and Rhys Williams have performed admirably when called upon but the step-up in class is considerable.

Why haven’t Liverpool dipped into the market and what’s going on behind the scenes?

Fenway Sports Group president Mike Gordon, sporting director Michael Edwards and Klopp, the three key figures when it comes to transfer dealings, have proved adept at blocking out the noise from outside the club in recent years.

They pride themselves on sticking to a clear strategy and long-term planning. They don’t entertain quick fixes. If they can’t get what they want, they sit tight until they can.
"



Probably the only way they could stop the rot into the 2nd half of the season was to make a couple of inspired signings this month.
 

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