Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3
- Thread starter cronullasharks
- Start date
JLW
Player Valuation: £60m
They look devoid of everything, energy, ideas, fight, confidence. They're in serious trouble at the minute and by the looks of it, its not going to change as they're continuing to do the same thing each week that's failing them and with the same players. They have no plan B.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
There should be a love smiley on here
helpimonfire
Player Valuation: £35m
Morning Lurkers. Does it still hurt
mccole
Player Valuation: £35m
The game came down to tactics.
Against RB last week, they had 3/4 one on one through simple through balls between their defenders. We did that, scored and Klopp never saw that as a threat.
Against West Brom, Burnley and Brighton, all played a low defensive line to stop the long ball over the top, we did that and Klopp continued to use the same tactic.
We stopped their only creative outlet (Robinson and Arnold) by using wing backs and Klopp never made a single tactical chance at any point in the game.
They have played like this for years and God knows we have all seen it and now they are being found out and their manager doesn't have an answer but drill the same old same old tactics and moan about how teams are beating him plus "wE HaVe InJuRiEs" like no other club does.
Chelsea (H) next expected to have returning players back plus a little rest but they'll be stewing on this defeat and the "media" are turning the tide on how unfortunate they are to Worst Champions EVER.
Two more defeats and it's MAJOR meltdown time.
Against RB last week, they had 3/4 one on one through simple through balls between their defenders. We did that, scored and Klopp never saw that as a threat.
Against West Brom, Burnley and Brighton, all played a low defensive line to stop the long ball over the top, we did that and Klopp continued to use the same tactic.
We stopped their only creative outlet (Robinson and Arnold) by using wing backs and Klopp never made a single tactical chance at any point in the game.
They have played like this for years and God knows we have all seen it and now they are being found out and their manager doesn't have an answer but drill the same old same old tactics and moan about how teams are beating him plus "wE HaVe InJuRiEs" like no other club does.
Chelsea (H) next expected to have returning players back plus a little rest but they'll be stewing on this defeat and the "media" are turning the tide on how unfortunate they are to Worst Champions EVER.
Two more defeats and it's MAJOR meltdown time.
N.S.N.O.
Player Valuation: £35m
Almost immediately after Salah (through his agent) started speculation about his future after this season
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Liverpool are an utter shambles. Klopp has cratered them. From 'the champions of everything' to probably winning f.a. this season.
That's as good an example of a blow out as there is in sport.
Their best players are at or hitting 30, and they have no new players of note coming through...and FSG aren't the sort to invest heavily.
They'll be unseated from the top table again very soon.
That's as good an example of a blow out as there is in sport.
Their best players are at or hitting 30, and they have no new players of note coming through...and FSG aren't the sort to invest heavily.
They'll be unseated from the top table again very soon.
BornBlue76
Player Valuation: £35m
looks like Moby after getting a tongue lashing from Slim Shady
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
You always sensed this collapse was going to happen, it was more a case of when not if. Like at Dortmund it happened in the 5th season. I'd hoped it would happen a bit earlier, and it's a shame it didn't happen a season earlier for obvious reasons, but I'll take it.
I watched Dortmund a fair bit when Klopp was there. I always quite liked Dortmund and I like Germany really. They were a working class team who overcame Munich and got to a European final. He had an excellent team. Maybe not quite as good as this Liverpool team, but an excellent team. Klopp deserves enormous credit for that. But you could always see, the intensity he demanded would always lead to a collapse at the back end, which it did.
In that final season, they were bottom 3 at Christmas, and really only with a winter break did he stabilise them to finish half way up. And they have a proper winter break not like here. He took the 2nd best team to mid table, and it may have been worse without a winter break. He's taking the best team to mid table here now, but the halves are reversed. Without a proper winter break, I'm not even convinced he would stabilise at that level.
Had he been playing in England with that Dortmund team, they'd have been relegated, 1 as they would have been cut adrift, and 2 because they had no winter break. Yes Liverpool were probably slightly better, but it's some collapse. It's taken Dortmund years to recover from that as well.
The team he left, was just ravaged by injuries and lack of intesity. Goetze, Reus, Kagawa, Sahin, the Greek lad at CB etc etc. All great players but all ruined. Its taken years of Peps management to rescue Gundogan from the same fate. It's exactly what you are seeing here. He demands a physical style, that guys close to 30 can't give, and they break down when not given rest. Henderson has been asked to play too many games, and after Fabinho, Matip, Jota, Keita, Chamberlain, Gomez etc he is just the next to break down.
It's always hard when players getting towards 30 start getting injuries. It kind of does them in and few recover well from it. Look at us with Coleman, he's a fine player, but is nowhere near the level he was before that leg break. Harry Kane is similar, injuries take their toll. Thats doubly so in his system, that relies so much on power, speed, pressing etc. The likes of Henderson, Wijnaldum, Thiago, Salah, Mane, Firmino who are all at or about 30 need to be wrapped up in cotton wool, but he's got them all playing twice a week slugging their guts out, then calls it bad luck when they go down.
I said at the time, that Burnley result would be the trigger point for this crisis. Thats all it needed, the dynamite and petrol where there, but it just needed a match. Their fans and their ethos as a club makes it worse too, as they assume it will all go back to normal. They are at a major rebuild job now. They are closer to 18th than 1st. Thats the mountain to climb now. And 1st are going to be adding 3 or 4 world class players like Haaland etc in the summer, while they are scratching around for lads likes Davies or Kabak. A 30 year old CB, coming back from a major knee injury is not going to be enough to close this gap. Forget Gomez making a difference, he is poor, and Matip will never play regularly again. Other than that, they are all fit anyway.
Klopp is done. He left Dortmund when he knew he was done. He was smart, he didn't besmirch his reputation by probably getting another relegation on his record. He is smart like that, and knows the right moment to leave. I can't imagine he wants a big rebuild job, and I don't really think he's the right sort of manager to do that. You can see he's very emotional, but also that he's not really a problem solver. He said very early on he had no plan B only that "plan b was to do plan A better". Well plan A has been sussed out, doesn't work, and with an ageing squad will not work in the future.
As a final point, he would be done in normal circumstances. They are going to have no money, even if they scrape 4th. They had no money this January when they had no CBs left. FSG only sanctioned 2 loans, 1 from a lad who's side wanted to upgrade to Mustafi, another for a fella he was a mid table championship player. That was with CL money and before the next awful set of accounts come out. They've got no money. If they miss out on the CL, they will likely have to make masses of money up, to cover the extravagent wage bill Klopp has built up.
Klopp isn't staying for that, and it's going to be hard to find a manager who will. It is in it's own way like following Ferguson, you're on a hiding to nothing, with sky high expectations and no money.
Best case scenario they get a good young German coach, who's used to building teams while selling key assetts and they embark on another 5 years journey to hopefully getting back to challenging for the title. I'm not sure if they get on board with that though. Worst case, they go and get Steven Gerrard and he Sounesses it. Except Souness collaped from position 1. He will be inherited probably position 5-7.
All of this has been predicted. I suspect we might be back to seeing 30k at Anfield again quite soon.
I watched Dortmund a fair bit when Klopp was there. I always quite liked Dortmund and I like Germany really. They were a working class team who overcame Munich and got to a European final. He had an excellent team. Maybe not quite as good as this Liverpool team, but an excellent team. Klopp deserves enormous credit for that. But you could always see, the intensity he demanded would always lead to a collapse at the back end, which it did.
In that final season, they were bottom 3 at Christmas, and really only with a winter break did he stabilise them to finish half way up. And they have a proper winter break not like here. He took the 2nd best team to mid table, and it may have been worse without a winter break. He's taking the best team to mid table here now, but the halves are reversed. Without a proper winter break, I'm not even convinced he would stabilise at that level.
Had he been playing in England with that Dortmund team, they'd have been relegated, 1 as they would have been cut adrift, and 2 because they had no winter break. Yes Liverpool were probably slightly better, but it's some collapse. It's taken Dortmund years to recover from that as well.
The team he left, was just ravaged by injuries and lack of intesity. Goetze, Reus, Kagawa, Sahin, the Greek lad at CB etc etc. All great players but all ruined. Its taken years of Peps management to rescue Gundogan from the same fate. It's exactly what you are seeing here. He demands a physical style, that guys close to 30 can't give, and they break down when not given rest. Henderson has been asked to play too many games, and after Fabinho, Matip, Jota, Keita, Chamberlain, Gomez etc he is just the next to break down.
It's always hard when players getting towards 30 start getting injuries. It kind of does them in and few recover well from it. Look at us with Coleman, he's a fine player, but is nowhere near the level he was before that leg break. Harry Kane is similar, injuries take their toll. Thats doubly so in his system, that relies so much on power, speed, pressing etc. The likes of Henderson, Wijnaldum, Thiago, Salah, Mane, Firmino who are all at or about 30 need to be wrapped up in cotton wool, but he's got them all playing twice a week slugging their guts out, then calls it bad luck when they go down.
I said at the time, that Burnley result would be the trigger point for this crisis. Thats all it needed, the dynamite and petrol where there, but it just needed a match. Their fans and their ethos as a club makes it worse too, as they assume it will all go back to normal. They are at a major rebuild job now. They are closer to 18th than 1st. Thats the mountain to climb now. And 1st are going to be adding 3 or 4 world class players like Haaland etc in the summer, while they are scratching around for lads likes Davies or Kabak. A 30 year old CB, coming back from a major knee injury is not going to be enough to close this gap. Forget Gomez making a difference, he is poor, and Matip will never play regularly again. Other than that, they are all fit anyway.
Klopp is done. He left Dortmund when he knew he was done. He was smart, he didn't besmirch his reputation by probably getting another relegation on his record. He is smart like that, and knows the right moment to leave. I can't imagine he wants a big rebuild job, and I don't really think he's the right sort of manager to do that. You can see he's very emotional, but also that he's not really a problem solver. He said very early on he had no plan B only that "plan b was to do plan A better". Well plan A has been sussed out, doesn't work, and with an ageing squad will not work in the future.
As a final point, he would be done in normal circumstances. They are going to have no money, even if they scrape 4th. They had no money this January when they had no CBs left. FSG only sanctioned 2 loans, 1 from a lad who's side wanted to upgrade to Mustafi, another for a fella he was a mid table championship player. That was with CL money and before the next awful set of accounts come out. They've got no money. If they miss out on the CL, they will likely have to make masses of money up, to cover the extravagent wage bill Klopp has built up.
Klopp isn't staying for that, and it's going to be hard to find a manager who will. It is in it's own way like following Ferguson, you're on a hiding to nothing, with sky high expectations and no money.
Best case scenario they get a good young German coach, who's used to building teams while selling key assetts and they embark on another 5 years journey to hopefully getting back to challenging for the title. I'm not sure if they get on board with that though. Worst case, they go and get Steven Gerrard and he Sounesses it. Except Souness collaped from position 1. He will be inherited probably position 5-7.
All of this has been predicted. I suspect we might be back to seeing 30k at Anfield again quite soon.
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
What a pathetic defence of their * this has been.
Honestly, I'm embarrassed for them. Tim from Essex won't stand for it and will go back to supporting Chelsea as yesterday will have been too much. Derek from Derby has had enough and finally taken down his 2020 champions flag from the front of his house.
An absolute shambles lol lol lol
What a pathetic defence of their * this has been.
Honestly, I'm embarrassed for them. Tim from Essex won't stand for it and will go back to supporting Chelsea as yesterday will have been too much. Derek from Derby has had enough and finally taken down his 2020 champions flag from the front of his house.
An absolute shambles lol lol lol
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I mean, if only there was a warning sign this might happen, like a club he did exactly the same to somewhere else, maybe in his previous job? If only he'd have given them a warning.
As for this it's utterly embaressing. Moyes is often held up as the archetypal manager who collpased when given a top job. The ultimate bottler. He inherited a worse United team,completely on the way down (with Van Persie singularly taking them to the title that season) and he finished 25 points down across a season. 5 of those dropped points were down to Giggs losing against Sunderland and drawing v Hull as well. So really Moyes was probably 22/20 points down on the previous year.
Klopp is already 30+ points down. He's completely botched this season to epic proportions.
One final point, this is the performance level with a 3 month re-charge when it was about to go kaput last season too. He's lucky he had that break, as it allowed for a bit of a recharge and his players to have a break. Without that, I genuinely think they'd be bottom 6 now, and could well have throw the league away last season.
Seathestars
Player Valuation: £60m
I wondered if he was looking to see if it was a red, never even got booked I don’t think.
Does it have to be deliberate for a red, I’m not sure
rochdaleblue
Player Valuation: £50m
The continued absence of fans has really hurt us financially but it has crippled them. No happy day trippers from Norway and the Home Counties spending fortunes in the club shop on match day. As a result....kabak and Davies signed as defensive cover in the past window. Did they honestly believe these players were of the necessary standard? Of course they aren’t but they don’t have the money to address the slide. FSG have never shown any inclination to put their hands in their pockets to invest. The purchases of VVD and Becker was only due to the sale of Coutinho.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Have they signed the lad Kabac on a loan or on a permanent?