ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[arch stanton]

Are you crazy!

`it was a rash thing to say, sorry again Ben.

 

[Pabbers]

Awful for Allison, especially with travel restrictions etc. Hope he gets to spend some time with his family back home. He comes across as a decent chap.

Im pretty sure he can travel, but the issue if he needs to isolate when he returns.

 

[DownOnTheUpside]

Watching it back again and what exactly is Thiago supposed to be? He’s not a no10 because he’s got zero creativity and he’s not got the battle and spacial awareness to be a holding midfielder?

his pace dosen’t exactly set the world on fire either

Imagine buying him for the low low price of infinite James Rodriguezs

 

[DownOnTheUpside]

Nurse! Please up the meds, the patients appear to be experiencing paranoid delusions again

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Proper loon ball him mate. Imagine coming in here pretending to support another team while throwing in passive aggressive digs at Everton.
He will actually live in a street somewhere with neighbours who have no idea that a potential threat lives within spitting distance.
I‘ll hazard a guess that he was cruel to animals as a child, ’kin freak

He was pretending to be an Everton fan when he first posted on here. A very strange individual indeed.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Nurse! Please up the meds, the patients appear to be experiencing paranoid delusions again

How can they think refs are against them? Are they insane? The only reason there not getting there normal decisions is because VAR is being fine fairly now and there not getting 100% of the dodgy decisions just 50%

 

[DownOnTheUpside]

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It's stating the obvious of course, but there really is something mentally not right amongst their fanbase. They've all seemed to buy into the "there is a conspiracy against us" theme. Have they not noticed how many penalties / free kicks Salah, Mane etc. have scammed over the past several years? Or even maybe how the red card count in Merseyside derbies since the PL era started is something like 3 to 1 against Everton?

It's akin to Trumpers in the US thinking the election was stolen.

Bit harsh that mate
Sure they might be deluded conspiracy theorists with a tendency to revere shady icons and act out violently when things don’t go their way
but I wouldn’t go so far as to call them kopites

 

[Amokachi1995]

Watching it back again and what exactly is Thiago supposed to be? He’s not a no10 because he’s got zero creativity and he’s not got the battle and spacial awareness to be a holding midfielder?

his pace dosen’t exactly set the world on fire either

Imagine buying him for the low low price of infinite James Rodriguezs

I went to Munich on a boozy weekend a couple of years ago and watched a Bayern match.

We all came away saying Thiago looked quality. But, don't think he scored or assisted and it was against Frankfurt. Guess he looks good in a good team and they're not at the moment.

 

[DownOnTheUpside]

I don't think they're the same, I don't think Klopp was involved in doping at Dortmund, they just couldn't compete with Bayern's wealth. Yes they have St Virgil injured, but they still have their front 3 and most of the players that won them the league last year who are fit. They lost 7-2 to Villa with VVD in the team. Barcelona rested most of their top players before the Semi Final, yet the RS somehow managed to play a difficult game against Newcastle then put in that performance in the return leg. They couldn't win the league with Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano in midfield, Agger in defence and Torres up front , yet can with Keita, Henderson and Fabiniho, in midfield, nothing suspicious about that.

tbh if you’re looking for doping I’d take a look at the injury list
Generally anabolic steroids weaken the tendons by slowing down cartilage formation and increasing the muscle power around it
If there’s details around their injuries look for tendon tears

in terms of football there’s only a couple of steroids that are helpful without ruining your cardio, you’d be looking for something along the lines of equipoise or nandrolone but they’ve got a seriously long detection interval so I don’t think they’d risk it

outside of anabolics is kind of outside my sphere of knowledge tho

don’t ask me how I know this

 

[davek]

They've got no idea. You wonder if they are trying to convince themselves or others.

He lists a bunch of correct decisions as injustices. Essentially proving the point, that once you actually got some oversight on the baked in biases they have benefitted from, they would go slipping down the league, as they are not very good, it has come to pass.

As I put earlier, they are likely to be as far away from the 1st placed team as they've been in 8 years. There's even an outside chance they break their PL record. 3 crocked defenders, none of them fit for August- are going to change this. Teams are not fearful of Anfield or them anymore and their own players play with doubt that will take a long time to rid themselves of.

They've gone full cycle here. "Next year's our year" chat is basically out. To me this season feels like Benitez last, where they ended up about 8th and their fans hounded him out. They then got Hodgson, and it got much worse. Because H & G didn't do the basics (a mistake that won't be repeated by FSG) they were able to transfer their bad debt onto their owners and be bought out for a pittance as a result. Thats all it was that prevented a spiral into relegation for me. They were bottom 3 under Hodgson, no money, about to go into admin, no idea. This has a lot of the markers of that year for me (again the start of that season was all about how Robbie Keane, very much that generations Thiago was world world class and would take them to the league).

One question none of them answer, is they were top in December. Nobody could deny they've had some injuries, the same as every other team. The same as any other team, given the profile, age and injury proneness of their players, they are lucky it didn't come a year or 2 earlier. Yet Klopp has planned abysmally since then. Yes it would be difficult, but much as I don't personally like the plan, Benitez still kept them together when they struggled a bit. He didn't just let it all go to pot. Even if they didn't win the league, the top 4 should never have been in doubt.

The wider measures are also telling by the way as well. I did that thing we spoke about the other day, and tracked their domestic performances since last lockdown (I excluded the game at Villa as it was against children) and they have 58 points from 38 games. A huge portion of that is when they had no injuries. So there's clearly a lot more going on. They got hammered 7-2 by Villa before that. 3-0 at Watford, 4 or 5 at City, 3 from Madrid etc. Their wider form is poor and it's tracking downwards. But these 3 lads, who all have very serious injuries are all going to miracuously be back ahead of schedule and return even better than pre injury? Likely story that.

Bottom line is that they're just not good enough or focussed enough to be anything other than flash in the pan one season wonders. There's been a couple of other examples of that in amongst other PL champions and their fans have to see them in in those terms.

There's barely a world class player in the team. But they bigged them up to such a degree that falling off the cliff as they have looks incomprehensible to them...that's what they have to get their heads around: the fact that the players they thought were there to build a dynasty simply aren't.

Last season with the PL title and kids 'coming through' is a mile off now.

 

[LEONARD]

The mutants have been awfully quiet this week, did I miss something?

 

[Marius57]

I've seen this brought up a few times, have to say i'm calling it lies and far fetched.

But, professional athletes will get tested numerous times to see if they have asthma. I'm including our own players into that equation.

Every sport is riddled with participants taking PED's.

Apparently it's common in elite sport, especially athletics. The Nike Oregon project is notorious for it. From what I recall, its a type of asthma illness that requires an inhaler. All diagnosed by Nike medical team. Its what farah was caught up in.

 

[catcherintherye]

Bottom line is that they're just not good enough or focussed enough to be anything other than flash in the pan one season wonders. There's been a couple of other examples of that in amongst other PL champions and their fans have to see them in in those terms.

There's barely a world class player in the team. But they bigged them up to such a degree that falling off the cliff as they have looks incomprehensible to them...that's what they have to get their heads around: the fact that the players they thought were there to build a dynasty simply aren't.

Last season with the PL title and kids 'coming through' is a mile off now.

That (kopite) Rory Smith summed them up earlier. Klopp's a systems manager, and generally makes players better by embedding a system. Thats the trick. When most of the players leave, and play in a different system, they struggle (see Coutinho).

The issue is, the system is very onerous, physically draining and is a short-medium fix. He builds up slowly to reach a crescendo on or about 5 years, then it all tails off. Happened in his 3 jobs.

A lot of them seem t be of the view they have this world class team, and if they just tinker a bit, they will be fine. They won't. Thats why Klopp, god love him doesn't do it.If he tried to be like Pep, never mind Ancelotti (who's more of a tactical mastermind that a systems guy) he'd probably not be very good at it.

It's never a sustainable thing with Klopp, he ruins any long term prospects for a short-medium term success. Fair enough he's not 1 season- short term, then all to rubbish, but he does always run out of steam.

In truth nobody really knows what happened next, as he's never really hung around long enough. Relegation at Mainz and near relegation at Dortmund before he cut it all short. Best case scenario is he is able to re-set the process and start again. But thats a 5 year fix isn't it? And he's beginning probably from a worse place than when he came in. At Liverpool they kind of have the younger players that had been built up by Rodgers ready for Klopps cycle. 5 years is really a best case estimate.

Worst case, it just plummets. I know they scoff at this idea, but it happens. United went from European champions to division 2 in the early 70's. Our team in the 80's, that got to multiple cup finals, won 2 leagues in 3 years (and lets face it blitzed 2 leagues breaking points record in the process, something they haven't done, and ultimately annihilated their greatest ever teams at a canter) and was 2nd only because of an injury to the best goalkeeper in the world (by 2 points, which is an excusable amount due to an injury) was nearly relegated 7 years later. And there was no real spiral like this.

Football is far more immediate now. Spirals and rises go a lot quicker, particularly when things go wrong. I even think of that Martinez final season, where we went into that 1st derby above them, around the top 6 and it started going wrong around this time of the season and by the end it was a farce. It happens.

I mean Rory Smiths point, which is a good one, is all you're going to get with Klopp now, is the same system, just done a lot worse, with older, more injury prone players, so it isn't going to work as well. If they really believed it was as simple as Klopp needs Van Dijk back, they give him the money for Koulibaly in January, but everyone can see it's not that simple.

 

[catcherintherye]

Apparently it's common in elite sport, especially athletics. The Nike Oregon project is notorious for it. From what I recall, its a type of asthma illness that requires an inhaler. All diagnosed by Nike medical team. Its what farah was caught up in.

If I was making a hypothetical comment, I would say that I wouldn't be surprised if some of the medicines for Asthma acted as masking agents. Often boxers will get caught with really innocuous things in the system, like drugs that might relate to botox, or nasal sprays or whatever, but they are masking agents.

 

[catcherintherye]

I went to Munich on a boozy weekend a couple of years ago and watched a Bayern match.

We all came away saying Thiago looked quality. But, don't think he scored or assisted and it was against Frankfurt. Guess he looks good in a good team and they're not at the moment.

Thats it with him. He's a nice footballer on the eye when he's allowed to be a passenger in a winning team. The problem comes when you expect him to pull his weight.