ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[degsy]

I feel a '' Lance Armstrong outing '' is only a year or two away.

So their asterisk will then have an 'asterisk' ?

 

[Moomin]

VVD not getting injured this year has ruined their only excuse to answer the question of ‘how can a team that a few months ago was going for the quadruple getting 92 points playing all games is now suddenly too old to even look like qualifying for the top 4’

They’ve tried to wheel out that it’s because Mane has left but they bought Diaz to replace him and have added Nunez on top of that.

Why has Alexander Arnold gone from unknown kid, to the best right back in the world, back to a kid that can’t defend, back to being the best in the world, and now can’t defend again.

Why was Salah looking like the best player in the world and now can’t hit a barn door.

Why was Van Dijk imperious last season after the injury but is suddenly looking like Harry Maguire? Throw in Gomez in that equation as well.

Why was Fabinho the best holding mid in the world and now fans want him dropping for Jordan Henderson?

Why do Klopp’s league points totals since 17/18 (when Salah and Van Dijk joined) read: 75, 97, 99, 69, 92 (and they’re again on for another season finishing in 60s-70s)

How many teams in any other league with players good enough to get over 90 points three times, have points swings of 20-30 points in intermittent seasons when they’re largely using the same group of players all the time?

Doping cheats.

What drugs are they taking?

 

[Moomin]

I cant believe that is true about the testing, surely they're tested all the time? I guessed his reticence about using Des in WC years is would be that there are fewer players in a WC tourney and a higher probability of his lids getting hauled in for a check,

The truth is rather than admit Liverpool are a decent team some people like to fantasize that them winning trophies is due to them doping.

 

[Saint Domingo]

What drugs are they taking?

Probably a highly scientific cocktail of all sorts of things

Logically though there has to be doping in football (there is in all other sports and football is by far the richest so it would be extremely naive to think there isn’t)

It then follows that the top sides must either be the only ones doing it, the best at it, or the effects are amplified by having the best players already. What is highly unlikely is that the best sides aren’t doping and all the others are because it’s unlikely they’d keep their positions at the top.

When you consider that Chelsea Spurs United Arsenal all have had very good players, managers, all have top training grounds how do you possibly explain 20 and 30 point gaps to City and Liverpool. How can the closure of that gap over a season by one team dropping over 20 points then be explained?

I’ve always said they’re not the only team doing it, the whole league is probably at it to a certain extent but I definitely think Klopp and Pep push the envelope further than most others and Klopp’s methods produce unbelievable highs but then ridiculous swings in form which just aren’t explainable unless you consider something is amiss.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Purely coincidental, I'm sure.

This isn't true. Every league in Europe is signed up to the WADA code which mandates a certain amount of baseline testing of every player and 3 randomly selected players every game.

 

[Moomin]

Probably a highly scientific cocktail of all sorts of things

Logically though there has to be doping in football (there is in all other sports and football is by far the richest so it would be extremely naive to think there isn’t)

It then follows that the top sides must either be the only ones doing it, the best at it, or the effects are amplified by having the best players already. What is highly unlikely is that the best sides aren’t doping and all the others are because it’s unlikely they’d keep their positions at the top.

When you consider that Chelsea Spurs United Arsenal all have had very good players, managers, all have top training grounds how do you possibly explain 20 and 30 point gaps to City and Liverpool. How can the closure of that gap over a season by one team dropping over 20 points then be explained?

I’ve always said they’re not the only team doing it, the whole league is probably at it to a certain extent but I definitely think Klopp and Pep push the envelope further than most others and Klopp’s methods produce unbelievable highs but then ridiculous swings in form which just aren’t explainable unless you consider something is amiss.

The majority of elite athletes are on PED's of some sort.

Maybe Pep and Klopp are just very good managers.

 

[helpimonfire]

Probably a highly scientific cocktail of all sorts of things

Logically though there has to be doping in football (there is in all other sports and football is by far the richest so it would be extremely naive to think there isn’t)

It then follows that the top sides must either be the only ones doing it, the best at it, or the effects are amplified by having the best players already. What is highly unlikely is that the best sides aren’t doping and all the others are because it’s unlikely they’d keep their positions at the top.

When you consider that Chelsea Spurs United Arsenal all have had very good players, managers, all have top training grounds how do you possibly explain 20 and 30 point gaps to City and Liverpool. How can the closure of that gap over a season by one team dropping over 20 points then be explained?

I’ve always said they’re not the only team doing it, the whole league is probably at it to a certain extent but I definitely think Klopp and Pep push the envelope further than most others and Klopp’s methods produce unbelievable highs but then ridiculous swings in form which just aren’t explainable unless you consider something is amiss.

Our board was clearly doped up when they signed certain managers and players over the last few years.

 

[Saint Domingo]

The majority of elite athletes are on PED's of some sort.

Maybe Pep and Klopp are just very good managers.

The top end of elite sports should be very fine margins. They’ve all got top squads, they’ve all got the best medical teams, they’ve all got extremely good managers.

Over the course of a 38 game season the top 6 should be ahead of the rest naturally, the differentiating factor is their expenditure, when teams are spending 100s of millions in windows and the rest are spending tens then yes there would be a gap.

Those 6 teams should be within a certain range of points from each other most seasons though. Ok there might be an odd exception when one of them hires a complete dud manager and it goes wrong or one gets it right and adds a few more points than usual.

But City and Liverpool finishing huge double figure points gaps ahead of managers like Tuchel and Pochettino with the squads they had at Chelsea is just too far a gap for me to be explained by them just being better managers.

If that truly was the case then Sir Alex would have been picking up 90 plus points every season but he only got over 90 once (91) and was scrapping it out at times with managers like Keegan Houllier Benitez Mourinho Wenger Ancelotti Mancini with very close points totals. Different managers with different teams most seasons all running the greatest manager of all time very close.

But we’re supposed to believe that Pep and Klopp are just so good that no one can get within single figures of them apart from each other?

Gap to them each season since 17/18

17/18 - 19 points (City over United)
18/19 - 25 points (Liverpool in 2nd over Chelsea)
19/20 - 15 points (City over third place United - Liverpool were a further 18 points clear, 33 ahead of United)
20/21 - City 12 points clear of United
21/22 - Liverpool 18 points clear of third place Chelsea


These points margins so often over a short period of time just aren’t statistically normal. Tuchel Pochettino Mourinho Sarri Conte are not bad managers by any stretch yet they’ve got nowhere near these two (apart from one suspicious season for Liverpool where they’ve dropped 30 points inexplicably)

 

[Eggs]

Probably a highly scientific cocktail of all sorts of things

Logically though there has to be doping in football (there is in all other sports and football is by far the richest so it would be extremely naive to think there isn’t)

It then follows that the top sides must either be the only ones doing it, the best at it, or the effects are amplified by having the best players already. What is highly unlikely is that the best sides aren’t doping and all the others are because it’s unlikely they’d keep their positions at the top.

When you consider that Chelsea Spurs United Arsenal all have had very good players, managers, all have top training grounds how do you possibly explain 20 and 30 point gaps to City and Liverpool. How can the closure of that gap over a season by one team dropping over 20 points then be explained?

I’ve always said they’re not the only team doing it, the whole league is probably at it to a certain extent but I definitely think Klopp and Pep push the envelope further than most others and Klopp’s methods produce unbelievable highs but then ridiculous swings in form which just aren’t explainable unless you consider something is amiss.

….my main doubt about this is that nobody is whistleblowing, be it an ex-player or a member of staff with an axe to grind. Taking performance enhancing drugs can impact a persons life & surely not everybody would be onboard with sanctioning it.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

The truth is rather than admit Liverpool are a decent team some people like to fantasize that them winning trophies is due to them doping.

Whether they're doping or not they're actually a very overrated team. Furthermore, referees and governing bodies seem to give them some sort of elevated status where normal regulations do not apply to them. If they were subject to the same rules as most teams they wouldn't win half as many games.

 

[Saint Domingo]

….my main doubt about this is that nobody is whistleblowing, be it an ex-player or a member of staff with an axe to grind. Taking performance enhancing drugs can impact a persons life & surely not everybody would be onboard with sanctioning it.

Who could whistleblow? Hardly anyone would have the wealth to go against the legal teams of clubs like City United Liverpool etc. Can you imagine what the defamation costs would be for some ex club doctor or ex player if they couldn’t conclusively prove it? It would be absolute financial ruin for them. Even Uefa or the FA wouldn’t have the resources to mount an action against some of these teams.

These clubs could buy off anyone they want, force them to settle, threaten to bury them in legal costs, and even if they did somehow win they could then threaten to sue them for defamation and loss of brand at a later date.

Every single person in the football ecosystem has everything to lose and nothing to gain by upsetting the apple cart. You only have to see the reactions of the other 14 teams begging for the top 6 not to be punished after the super league fiasco as they’d rather collect the cash in a league they can’t win than win one that has no commercial appeal. Who in their right mind would risk financial ruin, their own career, and the certainty of having no backing from anyone else in football all to be a bit moral after the fact.

Doping in football will come out one day like all scandals do but it won’t be linked to a certain team and it will only come out on the terms that the powers that be in football want it to come out

 

[BlueandWhite]

 

[NeroCeasar]

It's all about the net spend though...

 

[Moomin]

Whether they're doping or not they're actually a very overrated team. Furthermore, referees and governing bodies seem to give them some sort of elevated status where normal regulations do not apply to them. If they were subject to the same rules as most teams they wouldn't win half as many games.

When Ferguson managed United the likes of RAWK went into conspiracy mode that he had some control of the referees in the Premier League.

They couldn't admit that United were the best team but them winning was due to Ferguson cheating with refs.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

It's all about the net spend though...

I saw this and what annoyed me is the excel nonce says, city were starting from a higher base, they spent more in the last 10 years so that explains why over past 5 years Liverpool net spend is higher. City were just catching up, he should go back even further and adjust for inflation you will see the redshite have been spending a fortune long before Abu Dhabi rocked up at city.