ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[catcherintherye]

I can buy the scenario that they’d struggle to buy Mbappe. They’ve just spent world record fees on three positions so I doubt they’ve got another one lying around but it’s a far cry from that and financial ruin. I would love what you’re saying to come to pass but I think it’s far likely FSG come a cropper for playing in the grey in terms of cheating (which they have history for) concerning the hacking then they ever will because of financial impropriety. (I’m convinced doping and match fixing also occur and FSG would sanction that as well but as of yet there’s no evidence in the public domain for this).

As you’ve also said they’ve potentially got numerous routes out of their problems also. Their suspicious relationships with all three south coast teams means that I’m sure at some point some bang average youth team player of theres will be getting sold to Bournemouth or Southampton for 20 million, and if they can’t shift enough of those money makers they can sell any one of their first 11 for over 50 million quid easily.

On the other hand we have a limited number of saleable assets mostly Richarlison, Calvert Lewin, Holgate and maybe Digne if he got back into form. For nearly everyone else we’d probably be looking at a loss.

There’s always the prospect that they’ve done what H&G did and mortgaged themselves to the hilt paying players money they didn’t have and also paying for a stadium expansion, but their profits were huge last season.

I just can’t see it, would love nothing more though than for them to suffer two financial meltdowns within a decade.

I'll try and take each point. FSG could come into problems. If they are found guilty, they will lose some influence in America and the likely point would be trying to extract money from Liverpool to help cover it. It is not typical for a business to run up debt and then to have to pay it back. I think H & G were chancers who didn't cover themselves legally, and fought an awful fight PR wise. FSG won't have done that. If FSG come into trouble, they will owe serious figures in American capitalism money, so they will go after LFC.

They are more serious than H & G though. It's important to note H & G were lauded and loved up until 2009. Then the crash came, that summer window came and there was a pinch point, and investment was turned off and players had to be sold (Mascherano, Alonso, Torres if they would have got a bidder). Ultimately quite a quick downturn caught them out. In all honesty they have about 18 months operating how we had to for about 15 years and they wherein the brink. They are not sustainable if they hit a pressure point. There is some resilience to Evertonians that they don't have. If it spirals again with them, it will be more explosive and they will be a contributory factor.

I see the most likely outcome as FSG basically start selling assets. The team has a high value, they can sell assets, invest back in to younger players. Sort of a managed Arsenal situation after the invincibles would be the aim. It's really hard to do though. That phase could last a long time as FSG take a long time to have to re-build the damage they've lost. FSG won;t want it to spiral, but long term repayments could occur.

As for money gained, I think this will be another pinch point. I think they pay agents massive fees, and structure most of those deals that they get very little up front and it's mainly incentivised. With the drop in players values those sweetheart deals will go. This is a big problem for them. They've got loads of young players on long contracts with high wages (not counting on the £300+ million wage bill) where clubs will just not be signing them, or on that wage. They have speculate with a lot of assets and will be stung from the downturn.

Their profits were about £40m last season. You take the CL run out and there would be no profits. And that is with signing no players, and without the increase in wages. Thats before I even mention the loss of sponsorship money. What are FSG going to do? That is the key question here? What are venture capitalist, American FSG going to do? There are ways out of it, but few of them look like good ones. As they said in the furlough statement, "someone will have to pay for this" (and it won't be them). I don't think they consider furlough if they aren't really concerned, quite early into the lockdown of problems.

 

[catcherintherye]

A Premier League giant is reportedly losing £9m per week while in lockdown

2m in wages
4m in sponsorship
1m in gate receipts per month
2m in Sky money

I see no reason why it couldnt be us, infact using that metric it could be most clubs in the league.

You keep adding 9m x 52 to determine turnover, but its not all coming from incomings.

My reading is that it is income that is being lost. And that it is not just 1 week, it is week in week out over a 3 month period (hence the £100m loan figure to pay for it). In any given week we could have a 9million loss, but week in week out over a prolonged figure absolutely not.

The article suggests it is lost income. Our income is nowhere near 9 million per week.

 

[catcherintherye]

Thats not what a Loss is though.

I havnt seen the article, but I would guess that the clubs total outgoings have been made weekly, then measured against expected yearly income, now largely reduced.

That then is headlined as a £9m weekly loss. This week.

The article suggests it is on an ongoing basis, and the losses would total £100m by the time football is due to return (by June as some suggest). Our outgoings are nowhere near 9million per week, so even if we lost all of our incomings, it wouldn't be possible for us to make a £9 million loss per week over such a period.

 

[catcherintherye]

How am I 'very keen' ???? Im just disagreeing with you. I'm not really that bothered unless its not us. Ideally its them lot but I really don't care. if you aren't grey yet you will be soon pal.

I'd rather be grey than bald as I always say!

 

[dow1978]

I'd rather be grey than bald as I always say!

Hahaha yeah agreed on that one.

 

[catcherintherye]

Thats why they are losing money though.

Ok but if we work from expenditure then, there is an even smaller group of select clubs it can be. I mean it can't be Tottenham at that point.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think Spurs turnover more than £9M per year

Sorry mate, that was meant to be £9million per week.

 

[boris]

A Premier League giant is reportedly losing £9m per week while in lockdown

2m in wages
4m in sponsorship
1m in gate receipts per month
2m in Sky money

I see no reason why it couldnt be us, infact using that metric it could be most clubs in the league.

You keep adding 9m x 52 to determine turnover, but its not all coming from incomings.

We don’t get that much in sponsorship do we??

Regardless, there’s going to be a pinch but we seem to be set as good as anyone in the whole league to handle it. The teams with rich individuals supporting the club are going to handle this best and we certainly tick this box.

Even our actions in recent weeks, 100% wages, paying stewards now for nothing and telling them we’ll pay them again when the games get played, not asking anyone to take cuts, seemingly set to make a big signing, pushing the Bramley-Moore scheme still, announcing a 100m project at Goodison that we’ll largely be funding, it hardly mirroring the actions of a few other PL clubs who’ve furloughed staff and asked players to take pay cuts.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Haw you got a source for the £310m mate? It sounds about spot on to me, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

I got mine from the daily fail mate (there were other sources quoting it at that much as well)

Their wage bill is £310m. In world footy only Real Madrid (£312m) Barca (£438m) Man U (£332m) and Man City (£315m) have higher wage bills.

 

[catcherintherye]

Hahaha yeah agreed on that one.

My partner is always winding me up about grey hairs I have coming through, it's a fairly standard response I have!

 

[catcherintherye]

I got mine from the daily fail mate (there were other sources quoting it at that much as well.

Thanks mate.

 

[catcherintherye]

I can't see it being Liverpool, they have a massive kit deal starting in a few weeks, and they froze season ticket prices as the prior poster said, what club freezes prices if they are taking a big hit financially?

All clubs including the Petro dollar clubs are losing money right now, no matchday and concession income and monthly tv money even a powerhouse like Juve is feeling the pinch with players deferring wages for 3 months.

Spurs have a 750 million loan with interest to pay every month, it points to them and John Cross is the top football journo at The Mirror, he broke the story and he's based in North London.

Another note, no lucrative pre season tours this summer for the big clubs, that will be a be another hit for those clubs who use them as a cash cow.

Cross has pretty good connection on merseyside too though, has done with us and particularly Liverpool at times, and the Mirror is very well sourced on Liverpool.

Everyone is losing money. There are 2 possibilities as to what is meant. Either they mean loss of income, or they mean moneys lost. If it's the first one it needs to be a club turning over £470m + a season. Feasible it's Spurs but unlikely. If it's actually a loss, then you need to look at expenditure and clubs who have expenditure of greater than £9million per season.Then it really can only be one of City/Liverpool/United as nobody else is even close to that level of expenditure.

Spurs stadium would not be counted as a profit loss account in that way.

 

[catcherintherye]

We don’t get that much in sponsorship do we??

Regardless, there’s going to be a pinch but we seem to be set as good as anyone in the whole league to handle it. The teams with rich individuals supporting the club are going to handle this best and we certainly tick this box.

Even our actions in recent weeks, 100% wages, paying stewards now for nothing and telling them we’ll pay them again when the games get played, not asking anyone to take cuts, seemingly set to make a big signing, pushing the Bramley-Moore scheme still, announcing a 100m project at Goodison that we’ll largely be funding, it hardly mirroring the actions of a few other PL clubs who’ve furloughed staff and asked players to take pay cuts.

We do not either make, or spend anywhere near the £9million a week figure. I mean we are barely even 1/3 of that figure on either point. I'm not saying we don't have problems, but that can't be us.

Even if you said we take no money from anywhere, and added every single expense we have at 100% and we would be losing about 1/3 of the figure quoted.

 

[random]

Sorry mate, that was meant to be £9million per week.

I know bud, i was just being a pedantic nob (as per usual)

 

[DixieScoresAgain]

Your team also has massive loans, loans that were used to buy the club and loans that you used to build that massive homepunch stand.

I'm sure I read that the new main stand was funded from a interest free loan from FSG, I'm sure their new training ground and the next new stand will be on the same agreement.

Not sure but maybe someone knows here, but didn't FSG buy the club with their own hedge fund money and that the stipulation from Lloyds and BoS that the bidders from the club had to use their own capital.