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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

How can they expect to sell next years’ season tickets when this season isn’t even finished?? After the furlough scandal their fans would turn on them massively and it’s probably fan pressure that’s led to this.

We put our renewal date back weeks ago and I expect we’ll do so again if it’s not yet resolved. This is why most clubs want the void scenario so they can then provisionally look to be building for next season but Liverpool can’t support that for obvious reasons.

Also, Liverpool have less season ticket holders than us. If they sell 20,000 at a very generous average of £1,000 each, it won’t be, it’ll be considerably less, it’s only £20 million. It’s hardly huge amounts to them with their commitments, it’s about 2 days of losses covered. It’s hard not to laugh at this point.

Yes I mean this looks like comparing apples and pears. Some discussion it's Spurs the club (I find unlikely as they don't turn over £9m a season or close to it) but the secondary point with this is that all sides in the top 6 will be really suffering if it has any truth to it.

I agree on 2nd point too, it looks like FSG looking to maximise revenues. They make a lot more from individual tickets. It's unrelated, but in honesty it looks like a desperate move to make more money.
 
I don't know if anyone has seen this article;


Essentially stating one club is losing 9m per week (around £470 per year, or 540 euro's a year). Comment one from a Kopite is it must be us who rent the training ground from the council (we don't). They talk about us in a manner that is 20 years out of date and it's quite sweet.

Anyway my initial thoughts on reading this were that it will be bad for everyone, as if 1 team is losing that level of money they are all probably losing a lot. I thought 5 teams would have that sort of turnover. On further inspection only 3 teams make upwards of 9 million a year or anything close (Spurs will be now much lower this season without a CL run) Chelsea may be a 4th.

We don't make anything close to £9m a week, so it's funny how some suggested it was us. 3 teams do. Manchester United, Liverpool and City. They are the only 3 teams it could feasible be.

To narrow it down further you would surely ask, which club has acted in a pretty panicked way early into this crisis, maybe trying to get the government to pay their staffs costs? 1 team in the top 5 (Chelsea, Arsenal, United, City & Liverpool) turnover wise have chosen to furlough staff.

I saw it initially in the Daily Star, but it apparently broke in the Mirror which have good sources at Liverpool. Manchester United have recently had an article in the Times saying they are fine financially and will spend big (which I think is probably untrue but hard to imagine the are briefing in such a way). Maybe Manchester City are losing £9 million per week and want to report it? Possibly.

The likeliest contender (by some distance) though would seem to be Liverpool. If it is them it's absolutely disastrous news. It would imply they are losing almost all of the sponsorship moneys for the duration of this crisis. It would suggest the contracts have enormous loopholes if they are already being enacted this early into the crisis. I would also deduce, it's highly unlikely that if football goes back behind closed doors, those sponsorships would go back to anything near full value either. Some may just terminate, others may well settle at 50%-60% of the initial value.

They are still paying back for that eyesore of a stand aren't they as well?

Thats really serious though. For whoever it is. Best case scenario is we start against part way through June meaning just over 3 months of this level of money lost. Well over £100m lost and probably pushing £150m. If we have to wait until August and the system is voided you could be pushing that number north of £200million.

The £100m loan makes sense with this too. Spiralling wage costs and overall costs probably running at about 80% of turnover means you would need £100m loan to cover the costs from 120m lost.

For whoever that club is though, even in the best case scenario it is a disaster. Any emergency loan, at this stage is going to be well above what the standard rate would be. (Banks are having to prioritise loans to business, so what liquidity they have is not going to football clubs). To enter a negotiation now, you may be looking at 15% to get them to arrange a short term agreement, maybe even north of that. Thats £15-£20 in interest you are paying back each year.

For whoever that club is, best case scenario is they get the loan, the fees aren't too crazy and neither is the interest (working to the above numbers) and it's belt tightening exercise. Worst case scenario they have to start panic selling to cover the money back, either as collateral, or because their owners can't have that much debt being piled on the hundreds of millions outstanding.

Buckle yourselves in lads, I strongly suspect they are going to start trying to push Mane out in desperation for some cash (if it's them). They hawked him around last summer of £150m and nobody even consider it. Real Madrid wouldn't pay half that. They are in serious financial trouble now as well. I think a day of reckoning is coming.

Whatever happens you know they will come out smelling like Roses. I can’t imagine that they’d have embarked on a year of transfers like they did last year where they spent more than anyone in the history of football did in one year if they had financial difficulties under the surface. They have huge income streams from all sorts of places. I’d be more worried about us as our wages to turnover ratio is abnormally high and most of our players have no market value and are on long contracts. The saving grace for us might be that the contracts from Koeman’s first season (e.g Schneiderlin, Bolaise) will be coming to an end soon and also any contracts which were less than 5 years from our awful 17/18 window.
 

Spurs don't make £9 million a week in total. So it would be very very odd if it were them.

Either way, if Spurs are losing lots of money, then you can guarantee Liverpool will be as well (as well as United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc). You're basically saying sponsors are paying 0 money. I'd done some workings on a 30% pay drop from sponsors that looked quite bleak for them, this looks to be close to 100%.

If it is Spurs, especially with the stadium debt too, and missing covenants that is really bad and explains why they are considering trying to sell Kane.
I can't see it being Liverpool, they have a massive kit deal starting in a few weeks, and they froze season ticket prices as the prior poster said, what club freezes prices if they are taking a big hit financially?

All clubs including the Petro dollar clubs are losing money right now, no matchday and concession income and monthly tv money even a powerhouse like Juve is feeling the pinch with players deferring wages for 3 months.

Spurs have a 750 million loan with interest to pay every month, it points to them and John Cross is the top football journo at The Mirror, he broke the story and he's based in North London.

Another note, no lucrative pre season tours this summer for the big clubs, that will be a be another hit for those clubs who use them as a cash cow.
 
Sorry I meant £9m a week over the course of a year. Their turnover in it's entire total is not that high.

I think you are getting a bit fixated on a weekly loss being equated to annual turnover.

If its Spurs, they will have pretty large fixed costs now they are paying for the ground. They would have factored into their annual budget an income stream from the ground, plus the events that now will not happen this summer. This year most likely. Strip those from the budget now, and well, its most likely not great.
 
Whatever happens you know they will come out smelling like Roses. I can’t imagine that they’d have embarked on a year of transfers like they did last year where they spent more than anyone in the history of football did in one year if they had financial difficulties under the surface. They have huge income streams from all sorts of places. I’d be more worried about us as our wages to turnover ratio is abnormally high and most of our players have no market value and are on long contracts. The saving grace for us might be that the contracts from Koeman’s first season (e.g Schneiderlin, Bolaise) will be coming to an end soon and also any contracts which were less than 5 years from our awful 17/18 window.

I don't share this fatalism mate. Look there's no doubt some biases exist and certainly the campaign against H & G helped in allowing a court to allocate their debt to them (though FSG will be very unlikely to make that mistake again). They have been very good at cultivating this myth they are unstoppable. They're not. They have a lot of voices in the media, but if financially difficulties are hit, favourably media treatment will mean very little.

They didn't actually sign anyone last summer. I have done a bit on the Coutinho transfer (essentially the reported figure of £100 from Barca is the more likely one) and they sold it on to a debt company who would probably give them circa75-80p in the pound for an upfront payment. With that £75-£80m they probably put a down payment on the splurge of signings they've made. Two great runs to European finals, and record commercial deals have helped, but they are absolutely at the limits and wanted to sell Mane last year but couldn't. No transfer were bought in.

The eejits who support them seemed to think they were signing Mbappe too this summer. I have consistently said, it won't happen. It will not happen. If pressure starts to be placed upon them, there's no vine right to come up smelling of roses. Far bigger companies, with bigger brands and better connections than them will go bust in this recession. The idea Liverpool fall down a league table a few places is very plausible. I mean Arsenal, multiple title winners have done exactly that under American ownership.

As for us, yes in a conventional sense we are in terrible shape financially. About all you could say, is we are not exposed with commercial deals as we never had many to begin with. I work from the assumption that we have a billionaire owner who has shown time and again he is happy to help us out of a difficult situation. I wouldn't run the business the way he does, but I think he's quite comfortable knowing he has to bail us out. I suspect a mixture of long term thinking, bad decisions and ultimately enjoyment mean he's quite happy to keep doing it.

The other point you make is a good one. Our priorities won't have changed this window. We are still trying to offload deadwood. We are still trying to buy players who are younger for good value. That will have got easier. As for the dead wood, they are still almost impossible to shift. Maybe just maybe there may come a resolution from this, that contracts can be cancelled unless people don't accept a 30%. Something like that would be perfect. Essentially an agreement where all contracts are reduced 30% and players have the right to break them if they wish. We can just clear a load off. That's me being optimistic though!
 

Is it? According to who? Their entire turnover is not £9million a year or even close, so do explain that one to me.
It's the loan repayment for the stadium. The banks aren't budging on the agreed repayments before coronavirus which is why levy is now looking to sell Kane.

Could be united or Liverpool but their wages to turnover are easily manageable.

Manchester United turnover 662m wages 327m net debt 204m
Liverpool turnover 533m, wages 310m, net debt 158m
 
I can't see it being Liverpool, they have a massive kit deal starting in a few weeks, and they froze season ticket prices as the prior poster said, what club freezes prices if they are taking a big hit financially?

All clubs including the Petro dollar clubs are losing money right now, no matchday and concession income and monthly tv money even a powerhouse like Juve is feeling the pinch with players deferring wages for 3 months.

Spurs have a 750 million loan with interest to pay every month, it points to them and John Cross is the top football journo at The Mirror, he broke the story and he's based in North London.

Another note, no lucrative pre season tours this summer for the big clubs, that will be a be another hit for those clubs who use them as a cash cow.

Your team also has massive loans, loans that were used to buy the club and loans that you used to build that massive homepunch stand.
 
Sorry that should be 9 million a week.

How do we know it's Spurs then? Have you actually got any evidence for this? Or are you just terrified it could be Liverpool?

Don't worry, even if it is Spurs, if the subtext of the report is true, Liverpool (and United/Arsenal) will also be in big big trouble.
Tottenham Hotspur has announced record revenue for the 2018-19 season, with overall turnover growing by £80m (€85m/$92m) off the back of the club's appearance in the 2019 Uefa Champions League final. The figure of £460m is the fourth-highest in the Premier League for the previous season.


It seems its defo Spurs.
 
Tottenham Hotspur has announced record revenue for the 2018-19 season, with overall turnover growing by £80m (€85m/$92m) off the back of the club's appearance in the 2019 Uefa Champions League final. The figure of £460m is the fourth-highest in the Premier League for the previous season.


It seems its defo Spurs.

It's clearly Spurs. Ground debts, loss of NFL, trying to offload Kane etc etc
 

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