ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[catcherintherye]

Until FSG decide to sell up to an oligarch who can put a couple of billion into the squad this is as good as it's going to get for Liverpool.

They'll be miles off City as you say, but unfortunately I think they're about the only team they're off the pace of.

It's early days yet and they could fall away, but I don't think so.

Yes that sums it up well. Thank goodness for City as if it were last year I'd say they would be a serious threat.

The blunt reality is despite crying poverty and not spending at the elite level they generally always back managers well and have under achieved over the last few years. For them to have a single league cup win having spent the money they have is an appalling return. What I see under Klopp now is them returning to where they ought to be given what they invest.

In many ways he is the perfect manager for them. Obviously he hero worships the fans and plays their game but unlike Rodgers you can see he is a far better manager who will be able to be assertive in a transfer committee. Having a good manager recruiting good players to a system he is implementing in game will bode well.

As It happens I don't think they will fall apart this season. Their Achilles heel will be defence but they will blow teams away quite like how they did in 2014. There will be some painful viewing at times for us.

Longer term though what I cling too are too separate points. Firstly Klopp does generally blow out of steam at clubs. Mainz were relegated and Dortmund he left in 7th in an 18 team league. Relative to the rest of the league Liverpool sit somewhere between them. It's not beyond the realms of possibility over the next few years he could take them down. At Dortmund I would say they were a month away from that. They were stranded bottom after well after half way through a season. If he replicates similar here it will be more difficult to turn around.
Added to this you have supporters who's expectations will become unrealistic very quickly. This could add to a perfect storm and negative cycle, the sought that saw Rodgers and Benitez (and Houllier) lose their jobs each preceding over a crisis deeper than the previous.

The second issue is that their spending is being run on debt. The debt now runs well into the hundreds of millions. In Lieu of champions league moneys it has all been added on the tab. If I'm honest 99% of them are simply not clever enough to grasp that. Of the 1% that do the majority choose to cover it up to carry favour with the mob. Expect to see responses like "we're in debt for a new stand" or "we're not in debt" or "You're in debt with us, your stadiums terrible bla bla". They will not accept they are in debt for outspending their rivals with money they didn't have.

This sense of entitlement could add fuel to the perfect storm. Likewise if FSG tried to cut losses could see a period of instability.

They have a good team. I suspect you may be right with 2nd. I think it will be close between them and Arsenal while Spurs and United won't be far behind. It's the cups I worry about.

 

[davek]

Personally think it comes down to just very poor back up in positions. A couple of weeks ago it all seemed rosy and all smiles and rainbows. But when you actually call upon the squad, cleverley does not fit the system, kone/valencia will struggle to score 10 between them, del isn't as good as we thought he would turn out, ross is somewhat a liability at times, through lazy tracking and selfish play around the box.

just a few examples but we have no spark, no-one to stake a claim in the team because what our first 11 is, that is it. there isn't a single player in that squad otherwise that can even force their way past what is already there.

Allowing Galloway to go to WBA looked a numb nuts decision at the time and even more so now.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Yes that sums it up well. Thank goodness for City as if it were last year I'd say they would be a serious threat.

The blunt reality is despite crying poverty and not spending at the elite level they generally always back managers well and have under achieved over the last few years. For them to have a single league cup win having spent the money they have is an appalling return. What I see under Klopp now is them returning to where they ought to be given what they invest.

In many ways he is the perfect manager for them. Obviously he hero worships the fans and plays their game but unlike Rodgers you can see he is a far better manager who will be able to be assertive in a transfer committee. Having a good manager recruiting good players to a system he is implementing in game will bode well.

As It happens I don't think they will fall apart this season. Their Achilles heel will be defence but they will blow teams away quite like how they did in 2014. There will be some painful viewing at times for us.

Longer term though what I cling too are too separate points. Firstly Klopp does generally blow out of steam at clubs. Mainz were relegated and Dortmund he left in 7th in an 18 team league. Relative to the rest of the league Liverpool sit somewhere between them. It's not beyond the realms of possibility over the next few years he could take them down. At Dortmund I would say they were a month away from that. They were stranded bottom after well after half way through a season. If he replicates similar here it will be more difficult to turn around.
Added to this you have supporters who's expectations will become unrealistic very quickly. This could add to a perfect storm and negative cycle, the sought that saw Rodgers and Benitez (and Houllier) lose their jobs each preceding over a crisis deeper than the previous.

The second issue is that their spending is being run on debt. The debt now runs well into the hundreds of millions. In Lieu of champions league moneys it has all been added on the tab. If I'm honest 99% of them are simply not clever enough to grasp that. Of the 1% that do the majority choose to cover it up to carry favour with the mob. Expect to see responses like "we're in debt for a new stand" or "we're not in debt" or "You're in debt with us, your stadiums terrible bla bla". They will not accept they are in debt for outspending their rivals with money they didn't have.

This sense of entitlement could add fuel to the perfect storm. Likewise if FSG tried to cut losses could see a period of instability.

They have a good team. I suspect you may be right with 2nd. I think it will be close between them and Arsenal while Spurs and United won't be far behind. It's the cups I worry about.

Your analysis of Liverpool is usually spot on, but im never going to see Liverpool relegated. The fans only need to lose three on the bounce and they will hound him out of the club. Sitting in the bottom 10 for a few weeks would get some people on his back.

As for Liverpool selling to a serious billionaire ? It Is hugely possible if LFC openly put the club on the market, they are still a huge draw for anybody's portfolio off the pitch - if underachieving on it.

 

[HongKongToffee]

O

Until FSG decide to sell up to an oligarch who can put a couple of billion into the squad this is as good as it's going to get for Liverpool.

They'll be miles off City as you say, but unfortunately I think they're about the only team they're off the pace of.

It's early days yet and they could fall away, but I don't think so.

Over here there has been alot of noises in the press that the Chinese Investment Corporation with one of it's investment arms in Everbright is buying a minority stake at the RS.I'd be worried if it happened,having them partially owned by the Chinese Government and with them trying to put Chinese football on the map i can forsee them pumping money into the RS to make them a success,the commercial aspect would bring in lots of money and with 1 billion plus people there being brainwashed to follow a Chinese government owned team in England it would be a money maker for the RS.I can see it happening with a Hong Kong financial paper,uk financial times,sky news and Bloomberg all reporting on the same story in the same week last month makes me see thats it not if it happens but when.

This would be the 2nd time the Chinese Government have tried to buy the RS IIRC.

 

[Brendan Janus]

Allowing Galloway to go to WBA looked a numb nuts decision at the time and even more so now.

Dropped Saturday LOL !

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Dropped Saturday LOL !

Fairly certain he was injured tbf

 

[Steve0]

53,109 lol lol

 

[davek]

Yes that sums it up well. Thank goodness for City as if it were last year I'd say they would be a serious threat.

The blunt reality is despite crying poverty and not spending at the elite level they generally always back managers well and have under achieved over the last few years. For them to have a single league cup win having spent the money they have is an appalling return. What I see under Klopp now is them returning to where they ought to be given what they invest.

In many ways he is the perfect manager for them. Obviously he hero worships the fans and plays their game but unlike Rodgers you can see he is a far better manager who will be able to be assertive in a transfer committee. Having a good manager recruiting good players to a system he is implementing in game will bode well.

As It happens I don't think they will fall apart this season. Their Achilles heel will be defence but they will blow teams away quite like how they did in 2014. There will be some painful viewing at times for us.

Longer term though what I cling too are too separate points. Firstly Klopp does generally blow out of steam at clubs. Mainz were relegated and Dortmund he left in 7th in an 18 team league. Relative to the rest of the league Liverpool sit somewhere between them. It's not beyond the realms of possibility over the next few years he could take them down. At Dortmund I would say they were a month away from that. They were stranded bottom after well after half way through a season. If he replicates similar here it will be more difficult to turn around.
Added to this you have supporters who's expectations will become unrealistic very quickly. This could add to a perfect storm and negative cycle, the sought that saw Rodgers and Benitez (and Houllier) lose their jobs each preceding over a crisis deeper than the previous.

The second issue is that their spending is being run on debt. The debt now runs well into the hundreds of millions. In Lieu of champions league moneys it has all been added on the tab. If I'm honest 99% of them are simply not clever enough to grasp that. Of the 1% that do the majority choose to cover it up to carry favour with the mob. Expect to see responses like "we're in debt for a new stand" or "we're not in debt" or "You're in debt with us, your stadiums terrible bla bla". They will not accept they are in debt for outspending their rivals with money they didn't have.

This sense of entitlement could add fuel to the perfect storm. Likewise if FSG tried to cut losses could see a period of instability.

They have a good team. I suspect you may be right with 2nd. I think it will be close between them and Arsenal while Spurs and United won't be far behind. It's the cups I worry about.

Klopp: I agree. He has at previous clubs got things spot on then the wheels fall off a bit. That suggests he cant adapt sufficiently, or it maybe just suggests he conveys to his players an air of 'the jigs up for me with this project' - probably a bit of both. Add to that he's a German, and if he does well at Liverpool then he's only got one thing in mind like most top German managers: Bayern Munich. He only signed up for Liverpool because BM were intent on keeping Guardiola for another season. I'll be highly surprised if his next destination isn't Bavaria.

FSG: the plan is almost in place to sell on. They've scrapped the new stadium money pit and redeveloped instead. The plans are in place for more piecemeal development but even this one brings them up to a very decent capacity. They secured a top class manager in Klopp. If they can get Klopp to secure CL football for them again then they are in a situation where they can look to a buyer to hand them the thick end of a billion quid and walk away with a massive profit on the £300M they invested when they took H&G to the cleaners. THAT is when life will become really difficult for us. I'm dreading the day when they get a City-style takeover because they could easily build a dynasty on the strength of it that mirrors that of their late 70s/80s era successes.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Klopp: I agree. He has at previous clubs got things spot on then the wheels fall off a bit. That suggests he cant adapt sufficiently, or it maybe just suggests he conveys to his players an air of 'the jigs up for me with this project' - probably a bit of both. Add to that he's a German, and if he does well at Liverpool then he's only got one thing in mind like most top German managers: Bayern Munich. He only signed up for Liverpool because BM were intent on keeping Guardiola for another season. I'll be highly surprised if his next destination isn't Bavaria.

FSG: the plan is almost in place to sell on. They've scrapped the new stadium money pit and redeveloped instead. The plans are in place for more piecemeal development but even this one brings them up to a very decent capacity. They secured a top class manager in Klopp. If they can get Klopp to secure CL football for them again then they are in a situation where they can look to a buyer to hand them the thick end of a billion quid and walk away with a massive profit on the £300M they invested when they took H&G to the cleaners. THAT is when life will become really difficult for us. I'm dreading the day when they get a City-style takeover because they could easily build a dynasty on the strength of it that mirrors that of their late 70s/80s era successes.

Klopp comes across as a good man manager, but how long until all that back slapping and hugging wears thin?

I'm not sure just how much substance is behind his 'run around a lot' tactics. At the minute they're blowing sides away, but I think teams will suss them out, same as they did last year, and seek to frustrate. Defensively they're still mince imo, and their midfield lacks bite.

 

[davek]

Klopp comes across as a good man manager, but how long until all that back slapping and hugging wears thin?

I'm not sure just how much substance is behind his 'run around a lot' tactics. At the minute they're blowing sides away, but I think teams will suss them out, same as they did last year, and seek to frustrate. Defensively they're still mince imo, and their midfield lacks bite.

I agree, it could go west again for them. But I just think they have a bit more depth now, no other cup distractions in Europe, and a manager who now has the benefit of a full season in the PL behind him. Lallana and Coutinho are two of the more intelligent players in the PL and they have the best clutch of midfielders in their squad in the division imo. The forward line is adequate (more so if spaghetti legs Sturridge stays relatively fit). The defence, as you say, is the key for them. Even now they've let in more than any other team in the top half. If they sort that out then they can push deep into the top four.

 

[Ashtonian]

Klopp comes across as a good man manager, but how long until all that back slapping and hugging wears thin?

I'm not sure just how much substance is behind his 'run around a lot' tactics. At the minute they're blowing sides away, but I think teams will suss them out, same as they did last year, and seek to frustrate. Defensively they're still mince imo, and their midfield lacks bite.

Just need to suss him out.

German teams sussed him out and he went from champions to bottom, just got to wait for that to kick in again. And players to lose form or have bad games.

 

[HongKongToffee]

53,109 lol lol

And they have outline planning permission to add a further 8K seats on the Annie Road stand leaked last week to put the capacity to 63K.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I agree, it could go west again for them. But I just think they have a bit more depth now, no other cup distractions in Europe, and a manager who now has the benefit of a full season in the PL behind him. Lallana and Coutinho are two of the more intelligent players in the PL and they have the best clutch of midfielders in their squad in the division imo. The forward line is adequate (more so if spaghetti legs Sturridge stays relatively fit). The defence, as you say, is the key for them. Even now they've let in more than any other team in the top half. If they sort that out then they can push deep into the top four.

Unfortunately I make you right Dave. The advantage of having no European football in the context of the top 4 battle can't be overstated.

Get ready for smoke bomb bus welcomes by November.

 

[davek]

And they have outline planning permission to add a further 8K seats on the Annie Road stand leaked last week to put the capacity to 63K.

That's been the plan for a while. I'm not sure it'll happen in a hurry, tbh. It looked like one of those announcements to pacify the supporters who were pissed off with the corporate emphasis in building the new main stand.

 

[davek]

Unfortunately I make you right Dave. The advantage of having no European football in the context of the top 4 battle can't be overstated.

Get ready for smoke bomb bus welcomes by November.

I was going to write: "Nah, they wouldn't do that again in case they made a show of themselves again"...but it's the Kopites and they're utterly shameless, so they probably will, yeah.