ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[Brendan Janus]

Empty seats at Analfield on Saturday !!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I was going to write: "Nah, they wouldn't do that again in case they made a show of themselves again"...but it's the Kopites and they're utterly shameless, so they probably will, yeah.

They won't be able to help themselves.

The only saving grace this season, is even if they manage to hold it together over the entire campaign, there's City to ensure that they don't attain the Holy Grail.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Empty seats at Analfield on Saturday !!

But der season ticket waiting list that's the size of the population of Scotland?

 

[Steve0]

Yes that sums it up well. Thank goodness for City as if it were last year I'd say they would be a serious threat.

The blunt reality is despite crying poverty and not spending at the elite level they generally always back managers well and have under achieved over the last few years. For them to have a single league cup win having spent the money they have is an appalling return. What I see under Klopp now is them returning to where they ought to be given what they invest.

In many ways he is the perfect manager for them. Obviously he hero worships the fans and plays their game but unlike Rodgers you can see he is a far better manager who will be able to be assertive in a transfer committee. Having a good manager recruiting good players to a system he is implementing in game will bode well.

As It happens I don't think they will fall apart this season. Their Achilles heel will be defence but they will blow teams away quite like how they did in 2014. There will be some painful viewing at times for us.

Longer term though what I cling too are too separate points. Firstly Klopp does generally blow out of steam at clubs. Mainz were relegated and Dortmund he left in 7th in an 18 team league. Relative to the rest of the league Liverpool sit somewhere between them. It's not beyond the realms of possibility over the next few years he could take them down. At Dortmund I would say they were a month away from that. They were stranded bottom after well after half way through a season. If he replicates similar here it will be more difficult to turn around.
Added to this you have supporters who's expectations will become unrealistic very quickly. This could add to a perfect storm and negative cycle, the sought that saw Rodgers and Benitez (and Houllier) lose their jobs each preceding over a crisis deeper than the previous.

The second issue is that their spending is being run on debt. The debt now runs well into the hundreds of millions. In Lieu of champions league moneys it has all been added on the tab. If I'm honest 99% of them are simply not clever enough to grasp that. Of the 1% that do the majority choose to cover it up to carry favour with the mob. Expect to see responses like "we're in debt for a new stand" or "we're not in debt" or "You're in debt with us, your stadiums terrible bla bla". They will not accept they are in debt for outspending their rivals with money they didn't have.

This sense of entitlement could add fuel to the perfect storm. Likewise if FSG tried to cut losses could see a period of instability.

They have a good team. I suspect you may be right with 2nd. I think it will be close between them and Arsenal while Spurs and United won't be far behind. It's the cups I worry about.

You've had a response on RAWK

o apart from our last two sets of published accounts showing a profit, the owners converting a £70m debt to them into equity, and the fact the Main Stand work is financed by another interest free loan from FSG, I'm baffled where he imagines this "debt" is coming from?

Two lines but so much wrong with it!

The last two accounts showed profit due to selling the family silver.

And he just doesn't seem to understand what is meant by equity. Converting debt to equity doesn't mean it just disappears. In short equity is a riskier investment than debt so investors require a greater return.

Interest free doesn't mean no interest, it just means no interest for a set period of time. Shareholders wouldn't sanction a loan with no interest. FSG probably demanded greater equity for that favour anyway so it really isn't the gift this clueless little chappie seems to think.

Hopefully the rawkite will read this and thank me for saving him from eternal bafflement.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Allowing Galloway to go to WBA looked a numb nuts decision at the time and even more so now.

No possibility of a recall?

 

[Steve0]

No possibility of a recall?

Our defence has hardly been the problem tbh.

 

[Brendan Janus]

No possibility of a recall?

Eh, crikey !

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Our defence has hardly been the problem tbh.

Eh, crikey !

Obvs I don't mean immediately.

 

[catcherintherye]

You've had a response on RAWK



Two lines but so much wrong with it!

The last two accounts showed profit due to selling the family silver.

And he just doesn't seem to understand what is meant by equity. Converting debt to equity doesn't mean it just disappears. In short equity is a riskier investment than debt so investors require a greater return.

Interest free doesn't mean no interest, it just means no interest for a set period of time. Shareholders wouldn't sanction a loan with no interest. FSG probably demanded greater equity for that favour anyway so it really isn't the gift this clueless little chappie seems to think.

Hopefully the rawkite will read this and thank me for saving him from eternal bafflement.

No you summarise it perfectly. Unfortunately the majority of them are too thick to understand what equity is and that it's not some magical way of making things disappear.

As I put in the above post you will see every excuse in the book brought out by what are little more than a group of Flat earthers. I haven't bothered too have a glance yet but I imagine we will have;
1) Childish insults towards me
2) Blaming it on the new stand (tick)
3) Denying debt exists or hiding behind the equity myth (tick)
4) Making fun of Kenwright/Moshiri/ Wooden seats.

When I need a laugh I sometimes have a saunter over there. I know my Kopite mates think they are a complete bunch of bellends as well. Did anyone put my post about the lad who lied about Hillsborough up?

 

[catcherintherye]

Klopp: I agree. He has at previous clubs got things spot on then the wheels fall off a bit. That suggests he cant adapt sufficiently, or it maybe just suggests he conveys to his players an air of 'the jigs up for me with this project' - probably a bit of both. Add to that he's a German, and if he does well at Liverpool then he's only got one thing in mind like most top German managers: Bayern Munich. He only signed up for Liverpool because BM were intent on keeping Guardiola for another season. I'll be highly surprised if his next destination isn't Bavaria.

FSG: the plan is almost in place to sell on. They've scrapped the new stadium money pit and redeveloped instead. The plans are in place for more piecemeal development but even this one brings them up to a very decent capacity. They secured a top class manager in Klopp. If they can get Klopp to secure CL football for them again then they are in a situation where they can look to a buyer to hand them the thick end of a billion quid and walk away with a massive profit on the £300M they invested when they took H&G to the cleaners. THAT is when life will become really difficult for us. I'm dreading the day when they get a City-style takeover because they could easily build a dynasty on the strength of it that mirrors that of their late 70s/80s era successes.

Essentially Klopp's methods are all or nothing and he is not massively adaptable. This season will be there best and things will slowly go downhill. He slightly lost his mind at Dortmund. They have a track record of driving managers to the brink (Houllier, Benitez and Rodgers) all shrunk under the weight of their expectation (or their spoilt entitlement) and can see Klopp going the same way.

I am hoping that's not the case. If they sell it could go either way. They could get wealthy Arabs though I have to say I am doubtful of that. They will still need a lot of work doing and would still have only the 3rd best ground in the North West and if we build on the docks the 4th best ground by a long chalk. They'd probably need to demolish Anfield and start again to even be in the same ballpark as City, United and ourselves. They would also demand top dollar. I'm not sure many Arabs would want to invest 1 billion, plus the stadium money to get an asset that might grow to be worth 2 billion.

While I would hope for another Hicks & Gilette (or Glazier) which is a very real possibility I would imagine what's more likely is Chinese investment for a Minority stake. FSG may well great more shares to pay off their original investment and dilute their ownership. Chinese investment is perfect as they can sit back and sign the cheques.

We'll have to see. I know a lot of Evertonians view them as a club destined to be like they were in the 70's or 80's. I see a club in terminal decline having failed to finish in the top 5 in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Even a truly awful United have won more than them last season with their worst manager ever than they have managed in a decade. Likewise Moyes won more with United than they have in the last 4 seasons.

 

[MikeH72]

 

[davek]

No possibility of a recall?

Season long loan.

 

[MikeH72]

They won't be able to help themselves.

The only saving grace this season, is even if they manage to hold it together over the entire campaign, there's City to ensure that they don't attain the Holy Grail.

If we manage to survive the Big Jurg era without them winning a trophy before Bayern take him off them, I'll be thoroughly delighted.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

If we manage to survive the Big Jurg era without them winning a trophy before Bayern take him off them, I'll be thoroughly delighted.

I can see them winning a pot, but not the Holy Grail.

They'll hit a sticky patch at some point, hopefully it'll be at the point when they're frothing at the mouth at the prospect of winning the league again, and the entire place goes into meltdown. Klopp always looks on the cusp of morphing into a deranged lunatic.

 

[davek]

Essentially Klopp's methods are all or nothing and he is not massively adaptable. This season will be there best and things will slowly go downhill. He slightly lost his mind at Dortmund. They have a track record of driving managers to the brink (Houllier, Benitez and Rodgers) all shrunk under the weight of their expectation (or their spoilt entitlement) and can see Klopp going the same way.

I am hoping that's not the case. If they sell it could go either way. They could get wealthy Arabs though I have to say I am doubtful of that. They will still need a lot of work doing and would still have only the 3rd best ground in the North West and if we build on the docks the 4th best ground by a long chalk. They'd probably need to demolish Anfield and start again to even be in the same ballpark as City, United and ourselves. They would also demand top dollar. I'm not sure many Arabs would want to invest 1 billion, plus the stadium money to get an asset that might grow to be worth 2 billion.

While I would hope for another Hicks & Gilette (or Glazier) which is a very real possibility I would imagine what's more likely is Chinese investment for a Minority stake. FSG may well great more shares to pay off their original investment and dilute their ownership. Chinese investment is perfect as they can sit back and sign the cheques.

We'll have to see. I know a lot of Evertonians view them as a club destined to be like they were in the 70's or 80's. I see a club in terminal decline having failed to finish in the top 5 in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Even a truly awful United have won more than them last season with their worst manager ever than they have managed in a decade. Likewise Moyes won more with United than they have in the last 4 seasons.

The enormous media interest in them is something that isn't going away no matter what they do on the pitch. In the past 20 years or so they are easily the poor relation of about 5 other clubs in this league as far as onfield success goes, yet they are given more exposure than any club except United.

For that reason they'll always be a target for massive investment. The heavy lifting on turning them around from the basket case they were under the arse end of the Benitez era/Hodgson era with H&G in control has been almost completed by FSG. The stadium issue I dont see as a massive drawback: it has a lot of history in it that stadium...including our own!...and the absence of something newer with a greater capacity isn't going to be off putting to buyers. Henry et al, IMO, wont want to hang around too much longer and become part owners in Liverpool.

Hopefully they do get another meddlesome bunch of clueless new owners, but there's a real prospect that they get a huge player who'll do for them what Chelsea and City had done for them. In years to come we might look back on the period when they last won the title at the beginning of the 90s to the present as a golden era for us - one where (one CL fluked win aside) they lurched from mediocre season to disastrous season and back to mediocre season on a regular basis. We should have done a hell of a lot better in these last two decades to capitalise on their downturn but it was a period frittered away with off-field pipe-dreams and inertia and our own onfield medicocrity.