ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[Deleted member 24970]

Suarez, Coutinho, Mane, Sturridge, Lallana.

Suarez, decent player turned great.
Coutinho, Inter cast off turned 1 in 5 player. Before you debate it, his form pre-derby was poor.
Mane, decent player playing really well.
Sturridge, cast off with potential, ravaged by injuries.
Lallana, decent player playing really well.

None of the above was a statement from Liverpool. Liverpool signing Suarez now would be a statement.

 

[Penno]

Is he better than Pedro and Moses - Yes.

Is he better than Cuadrado and Mandzukic at Juve - Yes.

Would he get into Bayern team - Yes, better than Costa, Ribery, Coman and 2017 Robben.

So when you think about it, not at all ridiculous. Scores in big games too, very important.

Not trying to be antagonistic here and a genuine question, are you kopite?

 

[Deleted member 24970]

He won two German Leagues in a row, spending much less than Bayern and finished second twice. A German cup and some super cups, runners up in Champions League.

Dortmund fans still worship him.

He won titles after Bayern were in a mess. Still a great team but by munich's lofty standards, they were poor. (Shows how far behind we actually are).

He took a world class squad and came so close to winning the champions league. Guess who beat him ? That's right, Munich.
He took a squad that had the benefits of a mini winter break to recharge, then do the same thing for the second half of the season, like they did the first. He wont have that luxury here.

I loved Klopp at Dortmund, before it was popular to do so (everyone else loved Munich it seemed). Fortunately I didn't have to watch all his mannerisms, his bipolar behaviour and chatting nonsense every two minutes, something we have to put up with now. Had I been into Klopp as much as I had been Dortmund the club, I would of went off them pretty quickly (by which I mean follow klopp like we do here via sky tv) I still wish Dortmund the best now, thankfully I didn't buy into Klopp the psycho as much as Dortmund for their stadium, players and recruitment.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

But you wouldn't turn any of them down at Everton, eh?

I would take Mane minus his diving, suarez I would carry him on my back from barca, again minus the theatrics, Lallana is a good player but no better than ross, Coutinho is about as consistent as Mirallas over a season. We just got rid of gibbo so replacing him with Sturridge in the medical room is a waste of time, otherwise a class talent.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Is he better than Pedro and Moses - Yes.

Is he better than Cuadrado and Mandzukic at Juve - Yes.

Would he get into Bayern team - Yes, better than Costa, Ribery, Coman and 2017 Robben.

So when you think about it, not at all ridiculous. Scores in big games too, very important.

Mods ban me if you wish. Chunky you are off your fcukin' head mate. Costa, Ribery, Robben, Mandzukic would all run rings around Mane with one leg cut off and being stabbed in both eyes with dirty crack needles. I follow Serie A alittle bit, let me tell you now, cuadrado does a job for them and they love mandzukic for his efforts out of position on the left wing.

Trust me im a Mane fan minus the diving, he is a quality player, probably Liverpool's best, but he needs to step up another gear to get into the elite.

Whilst people debate who are undercover RAWK agents on here, you sir are not undercover. Infact you couldn't be any more obvious if you wore a police badge with a marked up K9 unit by your side in the middle of a drugs den. Forums like this are all about opinions, but sometimes delusion upsets the apple cart. Mayhem ensues. I hope im wrong like, hence the 'mods ban me if you wish' I may be a little too strong in my accusations.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Because not all clubs go about transfers in the same way mate, their owners so t sanction 50m on a,peak aged centre back whose value won't ever increase - it doesn't fit their moneyball idea, the defensive players they have bought have tended to be bargain basement buys.

Look at their defence, clyne for 8m due to him being in the last year of his contract, karius for about 4m, matip on a free, Milner on a free, klavan for about 2m, lovren was the only expensive buy and even that was only 20m.

So their original first choice keeper, first three cbs and starting two fullbacks cost a total of 34m for the 6 of them, same as they paid for Mane.

The profit is in young attacking players that they can then sell for a big mark up. Klopp also isn't a manager whose ever spent big on defensive positions, don't see him throwing 50m on a cb, not when they need 7-8 players already.

The players the club leaked to the echo as on their list for the summer btw, about three have already agreed deals to join other teams, FSG won't win any bidding war on players, it doesn't represent return on investment for them.

VVD will be RS player next season mark my words

 

[toffeejack]

before this season, not one person could deny lallana was an absolute failure there, a massive flop. He had 4 or 5 good months, but come on, that's not enough to start calling his great and fantastic etc. He's alright, just alright, mid table player which is what his maximum has been all his career, if he still played for soton nobody would care too much. Zaha and Josh King for example have had similar purple patches, they're not being labelled in anywhere near the same breath.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

before this season, not one person could deny lallana was an absolute failure there, a massive flop. He had 4 or 5 good months, but come on, that's not enough to start calling his great and fantastic etc. He's alright, just alright, mid table player which is what his maximum has been all his career, if he still played for soton nobody would care too much. Zaha and Josh King for example have had similar purple patches, they're not being labelled in anywhere near the same breath.

"But,but,but,eeeeez werrlllllddd class"well that's what I keep getting toldlollollol

 

[Chunky Frankfurter]

Not trying to be antagonistic here and a genuine question, are you kopite?

No, I am not a Liverpool fan. Everton are my English team and my second team to Dinamo. I don't understand tribal football. Even my Dinamo supporting friends go crazy about little things and I don't understand it. I just enjoy football, many more things to worry and get angry about in life for me. I cannot hate a player or person just because they play for a certain team. I would happily take Mane and Lallana at Everton, and Mane especially is the type of player we need, so when I see someone say that they think he isn't too good, I have to respond. People would turn down Mane?? Crazy. Klopp would love a wonderful full back like Coleman. It goes many ways.

The main point I was trying to make, and maybe I didn't do it well enough, was saying that the teams in England aren't exactly wonderful, especially compared to about ten years ago and are quite a way behind the current best in Europe. No REALLY great midfielders in England. None of the current midfielders could compete with Scholes, Keane, Vieira, Lampard, Gerrard, Alonso, Essien, Makelele. Apart from Chelsea they are catchable, and I said I think Liverpool, because of Klopp are not as bad as they others, like Man U with no real medium/long term plan, Arsenal with or without Wenger and Man City needing serious change of players, although did good last summer adding much needed youth. Spurs will always have a ceiling.

We should be confident in ourselves to compete with these teams. That's all.

 

[Raino85]

Let me start by saying Klopp has done well to get that squad competing for top 4. Here is where my agreements stop with you:

1. City, united, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton all have better first 15's than Liverpool. Their bench showed this yesterday.
2. Of the above, all of them can improve, including Liverpool.
3. Liverpool will not be stronger than Arsenal or United, both of them could blow LFC out of the water with money. See arsenal fans gripe regarding the lack of spending. Wenger sitting on a stack of cash etc.
4. Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino are better than Klopp IMO. Wenger done it for 20 years, Guardiola class abroad, may struggle here. Not to say Klopp is a poor manager, just not as good as those mentioned (maybe level with one or two of them).
5. Klopp left Dortmund with a injury ravaged, worn out, lack of plan B squad. Tuchel has picked up the last pieces of a great squad. See their fight with relegation last year.
6. Koeman as a manager has a long way to go before he is consistently winning trophies like Jose and Wenger. Signs are he will take us to the top again with the right investment behind his ideas.

I agree that players like Karius will eventually be good additions, but he brought in Milner to play left back, matip who has a track record of injuries, but generally been okay. Wijnaldum is good but not as good as I told everyone he would be. Mane is the only real decent purchase, but for £30m he better had be.

Overall I think Klopp deserves credit for taking advantage of the uncertainty with United and Arsenal. We must keep in mind that Everton and City both changed managers, Conte has done wonders in his first season, Pochettino is improving spurs with each season, if Wenger does leave, then expect a big spending Arsenal under Max Allegri or someone of his quality. Arsenal cannot afford to lose UCL for another year.

Everton's project of a new stadium with money to spend, coupled with the academy prospects, with a owner who looks like he will buy the city of Liverpool at the current rate, hiring a world class players who has taken his ruthless winners attitude into management, could end up being a better prospect than Liverpool, unless LFC manage to clinch UCL football this season and build on it.

Id like to also point out that to get the liverpool squad to even compete for top 4 is impressive going.
Point number 5 is a very very good point.

You look at players who Klopp got in as young fit players at Dortmund 19-24ish and you see a fair few of them are a shadow of the players they were down to niggling injurys
Sahin
Gotze
Reus
Gundoghen (i know he moved to city but he is always out with constant injurys)
Hummels (same here, got a good move but isnt the Hummels of 3 years ago)
Subotic
Błaszczykowski
Bender
Schmelzer

All these players have had so many fatigue based injuries that have significantly hampered there careers in the long run.
You could say a pattern is emerging for LFC too

Henderson (was meant to be out for 3 weeks, its been about 8 so far)
Lallana ( a 2 week niggle has lasted almost a month)
Matip & Loveren are also in and out of the side with knocks and strains

His heavey metal all or nothing intence training/matches seem to wear players down.
It lasts for maybe 2- 2 1/2 years and then players start deteriorating. Klopp has been there for maybe 20 months and its starting at Liverpool

 

[d34noj]

VVD will be RS player next season mark my words

Duly marked.

 

[Chunky Frankfurter]

Let me start by saying Klopp has done well to get that squad competing for top 4. Here is where my agreements stop with you:

1. City, united, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton all have better first 15's than Liverpool. Their bench showed this yesterday.
2. Of the above, all of them can improve, including Liverpool.
3. Liverpool will not be stronger than Arsenal or United, both of them could blow LFC out of the water with money. See arsenal fans gripe regarding the lack of spending. Wenger sitting on a stack of cash etc.
4. Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino are better than Klopp IMO. Wenger done it for 20 years, Guardiola class abroad, may struggle here. Not to say Klopp is a poor manager, just not as good as those mentioned (maybe level with one or two of them).
5. Klopp left Dortmund with a injury ravaged, worn out, lack of plan B squad. Tuchel has picked up the last pieces of a great squad. See their fight with relegation last year.
6. Koeman as a manager has a long way to go before he is consistently winning trophies like Jose and Wenger. Signs are he will take us to the top again with the right investment behind his ideas.

I agree that players like Karius will eventually be good additions, but he brought in Milner to play left back, matip who has a track record of injuries, but generally been okay. Wijnaldum is good but not as good as I told everyone he would be. Mane is the only real decent purchase, but for £30m he better had be.

Overall I think Klopp deserves credit for taking advantage of the uncertainty with United and Arsenal. We must keep in mind that Everton and City both changed managers, Conte has done wonders in his first season, Pochettino is improving spurs with each season, if Wenger does leave, then expect a big spending Arsenal under Max Allegri or someone of his quality. Arsenal cannot afford to lose UCL for another year.

Everton's project of a new stadium with money to spend, coupled with the academy prospects, with a owner who looks like he will buy the city of Liverpool at the current rate, hiring a world class players who has taken his ruthless winners attitude into management, could end up being a better prospect than Liverpool, unless LFC manage to clinch UCL football this season and build on it.

But you cannot judge teams just on paper. If you did, Liverpool would not be top scoring team. Their first eleven (really their attacking players) are very effective together. Tottenham are similar to Liverpool, their bench is poor on paper. The difference between Spurs and Liverpool is Spurs are much more balanced. They score, but also can defend really, really good. Look at Real Madrid and their Galacticos, incredible individuals, but far less impressive as a team. There is more to a team than great individuals.

If you look at just names, would most people have Tottenham as second best in the league? I don't think so.

We are seventh because we have seventh best squad. If we had a better squad, we would not be behind eight points behind Liverpool and lose to them twice. Their bench is pathetic, but their starting players are really good together. If Man U and Arsenal win their games in hand on us, there will be quite a gap between us and them.

That can definitely change next season though.

Also, Rodgers signed Milner.

Pochettino has won nothing, bottled the league last season, awful in Europe and not even cup final. Talented, very, but managers are judged on winning trophies.

But for point number six, I agree so much. A great manager that can take us into the top teams and more importantly, win trophies.

 

[Khalekan]

lol I'm not even going to respond mate. I'm sure all these clubs will be after him then in the summer just like they were last summer......oh wait they weren't were they lol

lol

How have you let yourself be dragged into such a silly argument, Mac lol

That fellow's post was a good laugh, though

 

[MikeH72]

Tbh it was an absolute joke Mane made the team if the season ahead of Sanchez or Ibrahimovic. If he puts in those exact same performances for any other team he doesn't even get considered.

The great thing is he did put in the exact same season for Southampton last year and wasn't even considered.

 

[royalblue66]

Is this the Liverpool appreciation thread ?