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ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

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Well my take on their finances has caused quite the ruckus over at RAWK world. They've literally ALL just gone with childish insults rather than counter any of my points.

Not saying our finances are a bed of roses, I didn't even imply it.

Anyway, quick response to the lurkers

"Moshiri has ‘cleared’ their debt with a ‘loan’ that is interest free. It is still a debt. However he now has first dibs on monies should he want it back. That has allowed them to borrow more money and gain a Chinese overdraft facility."

Well this is the thing, the loan is reported as equity. Familiar with that word, I'm sure. Everything you've written is correct, thing is Evertonians weren't rejoicing because the debt had 'vanished'. We're a bit more clued up.

Let's then have a go at the financial position of the redshite, despite barely understanding what has gone on, and ignoring our own finances which show a completely lopsided income stream that is 75% skewed to TV money and which will also show a record wage bill, which will only get worse.

This is the reddest of red herrings. The basic figure is correct but his implication is off beam, all other income streams are tied to being in the premier league. If the RS debts become unmanageable and they do a Leeds then wave bye bye to the hospitality revenue, say adios to shirt sales in Malaysia, bid farewell to sponsorship deals etc.

His record wage bill is odd as well....all teams have record wage bills. It's a meaningless comment which he unsurprisingly doesn;t exapnd upon.

However I digress, Everton have wages/turnover ratio of 59%. This includes ALL wages, outsourced catering, groundsmen, stewards, admin etc.

Liverpool's ratio was 70%. Turnover has increased but with the acquisition of Salah, Oxlaide Chamberlain, Van Dijk etc then the figure is likely to be around the same.

Everton's balance sheet currently shows £0 debt.
Liverpool's shows £67m.

The expansion hasn't quite laid the golden egg, there was talk of it bringing in an extra £25m. Match day revenue increased by £12m, mainly due to corporate but also a lot of it down to increases throughout the ground.

Even with the favourable interest rate it will take nearly two decades to pay that off.
 
I don't think the RS will do a Leeds,Ridsdale mortgaged that club to the eyeballs with a 125 million pound loan in 2000 when their turnover was less than 80 million a year and went on a massive spending spree signing Ferdinand Matteo Fowler Johnson Viduka etc with the loan they got CL football 99-00 and the following season they missed out on CL by 1 point and that's when it went downhill as the club was budgeted for CL every year,this was at a time long before the inflation in PL tv revenues,massive kit deals and the only commercial revenues most clubs had then was just smaller annual kit deals and advertising boarding around the pitch.The Leeds wage bill got out of hand and saw did the loan payments and the club couldn't sustain itself.

I recall reading about what a mess were that time under Ridsdale,Seth Johnson and his agent had been told to go to Leeds as Derby had accepted a fee,They were waiting in Ridsdale's office and the agent said to Johnson "right we'll go for 18k a week wages",few minutes later Ridsdale comes in the office and says right we want you seth and we are gonna offer you 40k a week 5 year contract :),just another sample of the mess Ridsdale put that club in,the Ridsdale goldfish story is another one how stupid he was with money.

Just looking at the Deloitte turnover results most clubs in that top 10 have debts except PSG & City (Both state run),Juventus (Fiat and Agnelli family ) and Bayern (who are the best run club in the world).

The clubs with debt in that top 10 all have massive commercial and tv revenues so can cope easily,plus it helps to have massive fan bases that these clubs exploit with pre season friendly tours and cheesy club linked merchandise that boosts the coffers.

None of these huge clubs in the top list will ever get near to doing a leeds or portsmouth,when clubs have been close the banks will help in the case of Real,Barca and RS,and some billionaire is always rich enough to buy these clubs if they are near financial trouble and wouldn't think twice at buying the club at the price of clearing the debt which is pocket change for a billionaire.
 
Well my take on their finances has caused quite the ruckus over at RAWK world. They've literally ALL just gone with childish insults rather than counter any of my points.

Not saying our finances are a bed of roses, I didn't even imply it.

Anyway, quick response to the lurkers

"Moshiri has ‘cleared’ their debt with a ‘loan’ that is interest free. It is still a debt. However he now has first dibs on monies should he want it back. That has allowed them to borrow more money and gain a Chinese overdraft facility."

Well this is the thing, the loan is reported as equity. Familiar with that word, I'm sure. Everything you've written is correct, thing is Evertonians weren't rejoicing because the debt had 'vanished'. We're a bit more clued up.

Let's then have a go at the financial position of the redshite, despite barely understanding what has gone on, and ignoring our own finances which show a completely lopsided income stream that is 75% skewed to TV money and which will also show a record wage bill, which will only get worse.

This is the reddest of red herrings. The basic figure is correct but his implication is off beam, all other income streams are tied to being in the premier league. If the RS debts become unmanageable and they do a Leeds then wave bye bye to the hospitality revenue, say adios to shirt sales in Malaysia, bid farewell to sponsorship deals etc.

His record wage bill is odd as well....all teams have record wage bills. It's a meaningless comment which he unsurprisingly doesn;t exapnd upon.

However I digress, Everton have wages/turnover ratio of 59%. This includes ALL wages, outsourced catering, groundsmen, stewards, admin etc.

Liverpool's ratio was 70%. Turnover has increased but with the acquisition of Salah, Oxlaide Chamberlain, Van Dijk etc then the figure is likely to be around the same.

Everton's balance sheet currently shows £0 debt.
Liverpool's shows £67m.

The expansion hasn't quite laid the golden egg, there was talk of it bringing in an extra £25m. Match day revenue increased by £12m, mainly due to corporate but also a lot of it down to increases throughout the ground.

Even with the favourable interest rate it will take nearly two decades to pay that off.

You spend an awful lot of time and energy writing a lot of words aimed at them.
 

They never can help themselves. Sign up, straight on this thread, then badly disguised criticism of established posters. Every single time. Da bluez was the archetypal example.

3/24 (ok 4/25 now) of my posts have been on this particular thread. I know the score though, have to "earn your stripes" on here before you get accepted.
 
They’re not heading for financial implosion any time soon but it will be interesting what happens if this season ends up trophyless.

I still think Klopp missed his big chance last season. Mourinho, Conte and Guardiola were new, Arsenal in decline, he had his feet under the rug and a transfer window behind him. He was basically in a three way shootout with Spurs (who had CL) and Chelsea as they didn’t have Europe to contend with. Klopp missed out on both domestic trophies and only scraped fourth despite a front three of Mane Coutinho Firmino. Conte in similar circumstances won the title with Spurs in second.

Now Guardiola and City look a level above. United and Mourinho are on the up, he has added Lukaku Sanchez Pogba and Bailly to that team. That’s a class spine. You would bank on one of these two winning the league again next season injury permitting. Will Klopp out last both these managers as it will be a difficult ask for him to beat either over a 38 game season.

Similar to Spurs in 15/16, when Leicester won it, you couldn’t help but feel they passed up a glorious chance that they might wait years for again. Last season felt like that for a Klopp. They were practically top at Christmas and limped home in fourth despite no domestic cups or Europe as a complete newcomer won the title as both Manchester clubs faltered.
 

I mean he starts on a rant about interest of 1.24%, saying the interest adds up and then seemingly realises it's a tiny amount given the return we're actually getting from that £100m investment (one game covers the interest).

This displays innumeracy on an almost unfathomable scale.

The interest is £1.24m (actually more as the loan was £110m but i'll let it slide). The increase in revenue was £12m. Even if we charitably attribute all of that to Big Stand it would means this chap thinks they played (12/1.24 =) 9.67 games last season??!?!

Not exactly many MENSA members over there but that was head scratchingly naive. Bless him, at least he had a go.
 
Anyone kept an eye on Keita at Leipzig this season? I've watched him a few times and he has all the hallmarks of a Koeman signing. I cant believe they've thrown £48M at that lad. Liverpool have been sold a pup. He seems to take an age carrying the ball from midfield to attack and he'll be slaughtered in the PL for needing the space and time afforded him over there. Obviously the erratic Can will go and he'll take his place, so they wont notice the difference too much. But they really should be looking for better than him. This is a cautionary tale in not buying a season in advance.
 
Anyone kept an eye on Keita at Leipzig this season? I've watched him a few times and he has all the hallmarks of a Koeman signing. I cant believe they've thrown £48M at that lad. Liverpool have been sold a pup. He seems to take an age carrying the ball from midfield to attack and he'll be slaughtered in the PL for needing the space and time afforded him over there. Obviously the erratic Can will go and he'll take his place, so they wont notice the difference too much. But they really should be looking for better than him. This is a cautionary tale in not buying a season in advance.

I'm sorry but I've been watching Keita for three seasons now and he's a class act. Plays the game like nobody I've seen before. He's also one of the fastest midfield dribblers I've ever seen so not sure why you think he's slow (other than due to who he's signed for).

Good news is that he'll probably be at Barcelona or Real Madrid within three seasons.
 
Anyone kept an eye on Keita at Leipzig this season? I've watched him a few times and he has all the hallmarks of a Koeman signing. I cant believe they've thrown £48M at that lad. Liverpool have been sold a pup. He seems to take an age carrying the ball from midfield to attack and he'll be slaughtered in the PL for needing the space and time afforded him over there. Obviously the erratic Can will go and he'll take his place, so they wont notice the difference too much. But they really should be looking for better than him. This is a cautionary tale in not buying a season in advance.

Might be the pressure, knowing he's going to be scrutinised but the bits I've seen of him he's looked mediocre to say the least.
 

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