2021/22 Ellis Simms

[Eggs]

It's obvious from Rafael's comments on Dobbin that hard work in training is getting recognition. So if Simms keeps working, the coaches will spot this and he will get minutes in the future.

This can only be a good thing long term.

….and he’ll be training with the first team because Unsworth and the Academy coaches pushed for his inclusion.

We have lots of youngsters training with first team squad over the past few seasons which certainly counters the numerous posters who suggest Unsworth blocks their development.

 

[catcherintherye]

….and he’ll be training with the first team because Unsworth and the Academy coaches pushed for his inclusion.

We have lots of youngsters training with first team squad over the past few seasons which certainly counters the numerous posters who suggest Unsworth blocks their development.

I never really understand that particular criticism of Unsworth. There are plenty of valid criticisms (and I do think he had a spell of being far too cautious as a coach with the age profile of the team) but not sure that the idea players arent developing and hes not pushing people up is one.

During the last few years, Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Garbutt, Galloway, Gordon, Browning, Pennington, Baningime, Brainthwaite etc have all made first team starts having spent time in his academy. To varying degrees, all showed promise and in truth most seemed to flat line after being promoted to the 1st team squad.

There are a lot of issues to be discussed as to why, but once a player plays for the 1st team they really have little to do with the 23s. Even if they play the odd game, its seen very much as doing a favour, rather than being part of their squad.

I remember at my semi pro side, we had a lad the year below me as an under 16, he played with us, was great and then trained with us. Quickly he played for the reserves and then wouldnt train with us. I always remember he played the youth cup game, but that was it. When he got an appearance with the 1st team, the reserves didnt see him. Essentially these lads have little to do with Unsworth once they are passed up.

 

[Ring master]

seems like he's injured still, wearing a protective boot in todays behind the scenes video, and Townsend took over the Clubs Instagram early today saying they have a club shot etc to do today-so its not an old video

 

[Eggs]

I never really understand that particular criticism of Unsworth. There are plenty of valid criticisms (and I do think he had a spell of being far too cautious as a coach with the age profile of the team) but not sure that the idea players arent developing and hes not pushing people up is one.

During the last few years, Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Garbutt, Galloway, Gordon, Browning, Pennington, Baningime, Brainthwaite etc have all made first team starts having spent time in his academy. To varying degrees, all showed promise and in truth most seemed to flat line after being promoted to the 1st team squad.

There are a lot of issues to be discussed as to why, but once a player plays for the 1st team they really have little to do with the 23s. Even if they play the odd game, its seen very much as doing a favour, rather than being part of their squad.

I remember at my semi pro side, we had a lad the year below me as an under 16, he played with us, was great and then trained with us. Quickly he played for the reserves and then wouldnt train with us. I always remember he played the youth cup game, but that was it. When he got an appearance with the 1st team, the reserves didnt see him. Essentially these lads have little to do with Unsworth once they are passed up.

….i’ve always felt it’s a ‘lazy’ comment to make and many seize upon it. They should dip into the youth thread for an insight from knowledgeable posters on the subject like yourself.

 

[catcherintherye]

….i’ve always felt it’s a ‘lazy’ comment to make and many seize upon it. They should dip into the youth thread for an insight from knowledgeable posters on the subject like yourself.

Thanks mate, there are a lot of better qualified people than me watching the younger lads these days.

As for Simms, I've never really been sure on him, and I'm still not. He is a big lad, but plays a bit like Lukaku in that he doesn't seem to really use it that well. He seemed to have a positive loan at Blackpool though and is around the squad, so you never know.

 

[Eggs]

Thanks mate, there are a lot of better qualified people than me watching the younger lads these days.

As for Simms, I've never really been sure on him, and I'm still not. He is a big lad, but plays a bit like Lukaku in that he doesn't seem to really use it that well. He seemed to have a positive loan at Blackpool though and is around the squad, so you never know.

….he certainly knows where the goal is & I think that loan spell has given lots of us food for thought (maybe even the coaches).

As you say, you never know.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

We have to by all means nurture these young lads for our future whether playing for our first team some day or receiving a nice sell on. Hopefully, Simms and Dobbin will be a factor for us in some way.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Wouldn't expect him on the bench for Saturday

 

[Barnfred 55]

I never really understand that particular criticism of Unsworth. There are plenty of valid criticisms (and I do think he had a spell of being far too cautious as a coach with the age profile of the team) but not sure that the idea players arent developing and hes not pushing people up is one.

During the last few years, Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Garbutt, Galloway, Gordon, Browning, Pennington, Baningime, Brainthwaite etc have all made first team starts having spent time in his academy. To varying degrees, all showed promise and in truth most seemed to flat line after being promoted to the 1st team squad.

There are a lot of issues to be discussed as to why, but once a player plays for the 1st team they really have little to do with the 23s. Even if they play the odd game, its seen very much as doing a favour, rather than being part of their squad.

I remember at my semi pro side, we had a lad the year below me as an under 16, he played with us, was great and then trained with us. Quickly he played for the reserves and then wouldnt train with us. I always remember he played the youth cup game, but that was it. When he got an appearance with the 1st team, the reserves didnt see him. Essentially these lads have little to do with Unsworth once they are passed up.

I know it isn't happening now, but for 2 or 3 seasons we had a lot of aging players taking up positions in the U23s. Very few of the brighter younger players from the U18 set up were therefore getting much of an opportunity at the higher level. Simms. for instance, was a prime example at the time. He was hitting 30/40 goals for the U18s and he was clearly too good for that age group. He should really have been getting tested at U23 level. much like Mason Greenwood at United who, at the same time, was taken out of the U18s after a few games and into the U23s. If I'm not mistaken he even got a few opportunities at senior level the same season.

The other thing is that, during this period, the U23s were playing a brand of football which was very defensive, invariably 3 at the back and involved teams packed full of defenders and defensive midfielders. This was completely out of context with what Silva was trying to do with the first team at the time. There was clearly no club system in place. Evidence would suggest that Unsworth was setting up to win football matches (often against teams who's average age was 2/3 years younger), rather than to develop young players.

When posters are suggesting that Unsworth may have hindered players progression to the first team, I think this is the period that they were specifically referring to. There's no doubt that he was excellent in the role before his short spell as caretaker manager though, evidenced by the names you mentioned above. And it's great to see that the current set up is also geared to challenging our younger talent, which is probably where we should be focusing our discussions going forward.

 

[Joey66]

I never really understand that particular criticism of Unsworth. There are plenty of valid criticisms (and I do think he had a spell of being far too cautious as a coach with the age profile of the team) but not sure that the idea players arent developing and hes not pushing people up is one.

During the last few years, Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Garbutt, Galloway, Gordon, Browning, Pennington, Baningime, Brainthwaite etc have all made first team starts having spent time in his academy. To varying degrees, all showed promise and in truth most seemed to flat line after being promoted to the 1st team squad.

There are a lot of issues to be discussed as to why, but once a player plays for the 1st team they really have little to do with the 23s. Even if they play the odd game, its seen very much as doing a favour, rather than being part of their squad.

I remember at my semi pro side, we had a lad the year below me as an under 16, he played with us, was great and then trained with us. Quickly he played for the reserves and then wouldnt train with us. I always remember he played the youth cup game, but that was it. When he got an appearance with the 1st team, the reserves didnt see him. Essentially these lads have little to do with Unsworth once they are passed up.

He wins trophies.......

 

[MikeH72]

I never really understand that particular criticism of Unsworth. There are plenty of valid criticisms (and I do think he had a spell of being far too cautious as a coach with the age profile of the team) but not sure that the idea players arent developing and hes not pushing people up is one.

During the last few years, Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Holgate, DCL, Garbutt, Galloway, Gordon, Browning, Pennington, Baningime, Brainthwaite etc have all made first team starts having spent time in his academy. To varying degrees, all showed promise and in truth most seemed to flat line after being promoted to the 1st team squad.

There are a lot of issues to be discussed as to why, but once a player plays for the 1st team they really have little to do with the 23s. Even if they play the odd game, its seen very much as doing a favour, rather than being part of their squad.

I remember at my semi pro side, we had a lad the year below me as an under 16, he played with us, was great and then trained with us. Quickly he played for the reserves and then wouldnt train with us. I always remember he played the youth cup game, but that was it. When he got an appearance with the 1st team, the reserves didnt see him. Essentially these lads have little to do with Unsworth once they are passed up.

Hahahahaha what, you cannot be serious.

 

[blueloon]

Wouldn't expect him on the bench for Saturday

That looks very much like an old photo, DCL is in the picture but also is young goalkeeper Harry Tyrer , no 53 , who’s been out injured for a few weeks now.Looks like an early season photo shot , Simms obviously wasn’t training with a boot on.

 

[catcherintherye]

Hahahahaha what, you cannot be serious.

I'm not sure your point here mate? All of the names mentioned have made first team debuts havent they?

 

[Nymzee]

That looks very much like an old photo, DCL is in the picture but also is young goalkeeper Harry Tyrer , no 53 , who’s been out injured for a few weeks now.Looks like an early season photo shot , Simms obviously wasn’t training with a boot on.

It’s probably the media day

 

[Azzurri]

Hahahahaha what, you cannot be serious.

Calvert-Lewin is a top 10 Premier League striker at the moment no doubt. Davies, Kenny and Holgate, rate them or not (I don’t particularly) have made over 200 Everton appearances between them. And the rest have made a varying number of starts, some of whom will make more.

So I’d say he is serious, yeah. He said they’ve made first team starts, which they have.