England v USA, 12th June 2010
- Thread starter GhostOfDixie
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Cena
Player Valuation: £70m
Mate, if you are still here.
I gave you several reasons why people don't like England. There is no bandwagon, its been built up over years. I remember giving you several reasons which you chose to ignore and cite us all as 'bandwagoners'
Loving everyone gettin passionate about us being Anti-English. Then when you ask them why you should support England the best they can come up with is "You we're born here and it says on your passport"
The Englanders aren't the best at accepting others opinions.
Muggins
Player Valuation: £60m
Rook
Player Valuation: £80m
Milner should have never started but taking him out early was the only good move he made (granted putting SWP in for him was nuts). Milner may have not made it to the half. He was getting torched. His 1st hard foul should have gotten a yellow so I wouldn't have been suprised if he would have gotten a 2nd yellow from say 2 niggling fouls.
Funny I thought if Walcott was on the squad both he and Johnson would have torched us on the left side.
jdeezy
Player Valuation: £1m
Gotta say, right before ghost opened his thread on the issue of englanders not supporting the team, I was about to open a similar one. Except mine was more exploratory & generally trying to understand as it's not something I'm used to stateside. We have far & away the largest & most financially lucrative sporting landscape in the world. That's a fact. Even Rooney, Messi, Beckhams of world, their earnings pale in comparison to our top stars. And that's all based on mostly domestic market vs global market in footy. And, that's even WITH 4-6 major sports competing AGAINST EACH OTHER.
So yeah, within our borders we have fierce rivalries & hated enemies aplenty. But whenever the country's colors are put on to face off against the world, we almost unanimously SUPPORT OUR OWN.
I'm not saying I have the backstory or full understanding to criticize anybody on your side for their views, it's not really my place or way. But I am pretty sure there's a reason we overachieve while you guys consistently disappoint. And don't tell me your team simply isn't good. It's PLENTY good, to do a whole lot better than it consistently does. And can't help but think a little more unity & support (from media & countrymen alike) would go a long way to resolve this.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just a culturally challenged & ignorant yank!!
Muggins
Player Valuation: £60m
thats a bit harsh.....
jdeezy
Player Valuation: £1m
Well thanks, I would certainly like to think so.
But just nipping it in the bud, getting it out of the way now in hopes of avoiding same old circles later.
ToxtethBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
England usually finish in and around the quarter final stage, I think that is where they are at this current time, I'd say they are achieving realistic goals. The English media would have you believe differently but there is nothing special about this group of players.
N
NHRevs
Guest
I've always believed Donovan's contract was more about making sure MLS got full value on the transfer than anything else. He'd have been on 1 or less than 1 year remaining on his contract coming in to this window - not a good situation for getting the transfer money he's worth.
Having said that, all indications are Donovan WANTS to come back to Everton and would probably greenlight a reduced price deal to make it work.
Cena
Player Valuation: £70m
Very harsh mate on yourself there.
I think the patriotism of the Americans is incredible. You truly love your country which i think is great.
The difference is this though... Many English people have said to me, "i can't stand those Yanks, they go mad and over the top, there so confident in themselves and they love themselves, no wonder a lot of countries hate them" Yet these same English people paint there faces red & white, fly flags on their cars, decorate there houses in England flags and do it generally over the top themselves, but only during World Cup or Euro tournaments. Why not all year round? Why **** off yanks when they do exactly the same thing and at least you fly your flags all year round, not like the fairweather patriotism that happens over here?
That is another reason i don't follow England and i won't go into other reasons as i have already done that previously in this thread.
I go on about this, but i am proud, very proud of being from Liverpool and what my city stands for, yet when i go on aways around the country and hear such anti-scouseness and when Scousers get abuse from so-called fellow England fans just for being Scouse, why should i side or feel to need to side with them. Just my view on things.
To summarise though mate, your far from an ignorant yank!
N
NHRevs
Guest
Modern international football in the U.S. begins in 1990 and with the generation of players that formed that squad. There WERE no clubs, thus no club versus country debate. The national team was the entire focus of football hopes and aspirations among those who cared. Even now, clubs are at most 15 years old; they're only beginning to put down relatively deep family roots. In the U.S. country comes before club ALWAYS to the extent that "Yeah, but what does [xyz club move] do to develop him for the Nats?" is a legitimate and sensible question.
One reason the U.S. did so well is that is far more a team than England. "Camp Cupcake," the long annual January camp for fringe and potential National team players brings possbile internationals along slowly, integrating them into a consistent scheme. A player may make several such camps before breaking through into the 23 man or game-day rosters.
In England this is called "The Champions League" and participation is hit and miss, and there's no consistent scheme for the different players.
jdeezy
Player Valuation: £1m
Modern international football in the U.S. begins in 1990 and with the generation of players that formed that squad. There WERE no clubs, thus no club versus country debate. The national team was the entire focus of football hopes and aspirations among those who cared. Even now, clubs are at most 15 years old; they're only beginning to put down relatively deep family roots. In the U.S. country comes before club ALWAYS to the extent that "Yeah, but what does [xyz club move] do to develop him for the Nats?" is a legitimate and sensible question.
One reason the U.S. did so well is that is far more a team than England. "Camp Cupcake," the long annual January camp for fringe and potential National team players brings possbile internationals along slowly, integrating them into a consistent scheme. A player may make several such camps before breaking through into the 23 man or game-day rosters.
In England this is called "The Champions League" and participation is hit and miss, and there's no consistent scheme for the different players.
No I get that. The club vs country debate for U.S. is non-issue, no history there nothing to divide allegiance.
I was referring to any of our other sports, where local rivalries & history exists. Obviously there's not a perfect comparison as our 3 biggest are largely domestic & not shared globally.
Basketball is probably the most popular of the big 3 (4 if you count hockey) internationally. Again, not best analogy but certainly you wouldn't find a Laker & Cavs fan rooting against Lebron/Kobe or the U.S team in the olympics due to their hatred of the other.
Baseball probably has most history, & as a loyal NY Yankee fan I of course DESPISE the Sawx . From your name, I'm guessing you're quite possibly a Boston fan. But, when that silly little World Cup of Baseball tournament went down (yes, I know, not best comparison who even noticed??!) I was not overly bitter at the thought of Dereek Jeter lining up next to Sox players. I rooted for U.S so long as they had our colors on, including those who played for Boston. Once regular season was underway, I went back to hating the Sox & their players. Simples.
jdeezy
Player Valuation: £1m
Well thanks, mate.
Something which may be worth noting is that there are in fact so many reasons & areas in which I can't stand my country, how we go about things (foreign AND domestic), and even areas & generalized groups of people who I can almost guarantee to not be particularly fond of their outlook, views, approach, attitude, lifestyle, etc. But that's between us, within our own borders which we'll sort (ok, unlikely!) on our own time internally.
But when it's time to man up & round together against other countries or regions, we know how to set aside our differences & pull for our boys colllectively.
It's like a family. We have those relatives you can't stand or never get along with. But if one of them got in a fight w/ an outsider, you'd drop everything & get their back no questions. There's something about england team which just doesn't seem to care if that not so fond relative gets beat up by a band of hooligans.
On the flip side, your reference to your proud Liverpool heritage made me stop & think. I thought about myself, who while I've been in florida for a good time, really grew up in new york & still very much associate w/ those roots. And, then I thought about how over the top, intense, & even obnoxiously dismissive of basically "everywhere else" new yorkers can be. We kind of consider NY as the center of the universe (which, to be fair, we kinda ARE!), & OBVIOUSLY the center of America (w/ a couple other "small" cities as sidekicks, some coastlines & other cool places to visit on occasion thrown in for good measure). And I realize this attitude doesn't come across or sit well w/ many other americans across the country.
I still, however, root for a new yorker & texan just the same when our colors are on the line, & would like to think most texans would do the same. But maybe I'm not in the best position to fully understand or appreciate your guys' side of it. I suppose I'm more akin to a Londener who's difficult to not begrudge even when in theory we should be rootin' together for country??
Ah well, good insights either way.
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