Everton 1969/1970 or Everton 1984/1985 Which Squad Was Better?

[Major Gowen]

Below, The test for us all, the editorial in the second home programme (Wolves, 10 April 1971) following the Panathinaikos & Liverpool defeats:

We failed it.

 

[Sadken]

1970, just because Alan ball was my hero.

 

[brian labone]

I really enjoyed both of them but the 80s one edged it.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Below, The test for us all, the editorial in the second home programme (Wolves, 10 April 1971) following the Panathinaikos & Liverpool defeats:

View attachment 149391

We failed it.

I think had we won, even one of those Panathinaikos/liverpool games. Then the 1970's could have turned out different for Everton.

 

[CrustySack]

Who would win, in a game between the 1970 and 1985 team?

Let's be real here. Easy decision. I don't even think it would be close either.

 

[Major Gowen]

For a small piece of historical perspective, here's an item - "All-Time Great" Everton Team - from the programme for the glorious 6-0 thrashing of Coventry (aka the Latchford-Thomas show), 26 November 1977. It's entirely unscientific, and appears to be dominated by older blues, but it's not without interest, not least for the infrequent appearance of players from the great 1969-70 side. Three names are pretty much constant - Sagar, TG Jones & Dean - and one correspondent follows in my Grandad's footsteps in plumping for the early 1930s side en masse. (I should point out that my Grandad blamed the 1968 Cup Final defeat on the absence of Ted Sagar, who he claimed would have saved Astle's deflected lash with one hand, and probably while asleep.)

 

[Major Gowen]

I think had we won, even one of those Panathinaikos/liverpool games. Then the 1970's could have turned out different for Everton.

I agree, but we didn't, and it was up to us to regroup and go again. We didn't.

 

[Major Gowen]

A final thought before some frantic last-minute parcel-wrapping.

The question posed at the head of this thread concerned the relative merits of the two squads. By this measure, the 1984-85 group wins hands down, as the 1986-87 title triumph proved. With a few peripheral additions - Paul Power being the major exception - it weathered a horrendous run of injuries to not only regain the title after the even worse heartbreak of missing out on the double to the Dark Side, but do it a canter. The 1984-85 squad regrouped and went again - the 1969-70, much as I loved them, didn't.

 

[Joey66]

I will stand by what Colin Harvey stated - the 1970s team only had a three-man midfield plus one centre Forward.... plus in that era stronger teams to compete with Leeds, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Derby etc
The style of football was breathtaking, plus the Holy Trinity as a unit were broke up with suspension & injury ....

The 1980s team four-man midfield - plus two strikers - yet on paper they were far more victorious - both great teams - the 1970s team should have gone on to be kings for an age - circumstances made it not possible - Just as the European ban stopped the 1980s European ban cost us dearly - the Manager HK was in his pomp - - alas the 1970s manager was burnt out with failing health ....

TBH I loved both teams HK & CH made it possible for both teams to flourish playing, & managing plus coaching - so it was down to them plus in the 1970s a world-class midfielder in Bally .....

 

[terryefc]

Top Trumps

West 9 Southall 10
Wright 9 Stevens 9
Brown 8.5 Van den Hauwe 8.5
Hurst 9 Mountfield 8.5
Labone 9 Ratcliffe 9
Kendall 9 Reid 9
Ball 10 Bracewell 8.5
Harvey 9 Steven 9
Husband 8.5 Sheedy 9
Royle 9 Gray 9
Moggsy 9 Sharpe 9

Whittle 8.5 Power / Rico / Heath / Harper 8.5

I have the 69/70 winning by 1/2 a point.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

I think had we won, even one of those Panathinaikos/liverpool games. Then the 1970's could have turned out different for Everton.

So many games in the course of our history you just think, what a waste,West Brom 1968 cup final, massive favourites,Panathinaikos,probably the draw we would have wanted in the 1/4 finals,Ajax yes a great team at Wembley waiting in the final, but I like to think on home soil we could have won it,Man U 1985 to complete the treble having already beaten them 5-0 that season,I'm only scratching the surface here I know but what might/should have been eh?

 

[Bluerover]

1970, just because Alan ball was my hero.

Bally was my hero. but we had quite a few. For me, West Labby, Harvey, Royle were titans too.

 

[roy vernon]

Bally was my hero. but we had quite a few. For me, West Labby, Harvey, Royle were titans too.

Bally was my hero too, but, I’ll always have a soft spot for Johnny Morrissey, he epitomised that team, classy, great football brain, hard as nails and a winner through and through.

 

[Drico]

In terms of success the team of the 80's, is the undisputed winner. But that wasn't the question i asked. The question was, which team was better on an individual basis? Who would win, in a game between the 1970 and 1985 team?

I'd be very confident that if they played once, the 1970 team would have a chance and if they played 10 times, the 1980s side would win seven. I understand the nostalgia and reverence for the 1970 side. They were tremendous - but they made very little impact on the wider football world and are almost always an afterthought when discussion of the great sides of that era occurs. People remember Leeds United under Review, the Arsenal double side, Chelsea with Chopper Harris, and Mercer's Manchester City before they even give our lads a sniff. We were, essentially, a one-season wonder. All of the others mentioned won a trophy in multiple seasons or multiple trophies.

You mention how exciting the prospect of this Everton side taking on the Ajax of total football fame would be, but, in the 1971 final, that Ajax side brushed aside the Panathinaikos that eliminated us. Given that they won two more European Cups and we finished 15th and 17th in those seasons in the league, it is a contest only in people's fevered imaginations. We just weren't that good over any extended period of time. One-season wonders.

The 1970 team couldn't win in Europe with a clear run, yet the 1980s side did win in Europe despite being banned for most of their existence. I don't think it's fair to compare the 1970 side with the 1980s team. The 1970 side was lovely, but people do them no favours when pitting them against the greatest side in our history and one of the greatest of all English sides.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I can argue with that. He played in one team - that makes him, understandably, biased. Both sides were great, but the evidence - winning trophies and competing for them - demonstrably proves that the 1980s team was clearly superior. Two league titles, one FA Cup, and a Cup Winners' Cup - we'll ignore the three and a half Charity Shields, a League Cup final, two FA Cup finals, and a league runners-up spot - utterly trump one league title (and, at a stretch, an FA Cup final defeat two years earlier).

Style and preference is a matter of taste, but achievement is more objective. Our greatest side was in the 1980s and it's not even close.

So you don't think that comparative strength in depth of the league is a factor to be considered when judging teams from different eras?