Everton 6-1 SK Brann - 21st Feb 20:00

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TX Bill said:
Oh really? I've stated that I know what motivates Manny and what doesn't?

Interesting as I've stated nothing of the sort.

i may have suggested some reasoning as to why some poor displays so far, to take an opposing position is to disagree with the suggested reasoning, hence: you have put your point across regarding your perception of munnys displays

But thank you kindly for pointing out the obvious comparisons between Manny & Pienaar.

Since you've done so, let's take it to the logical next step.

all sorts of types of logic, lets not railroad anyone.

Pienaar arrives at Everton, gets settled in, and starts to produces some fabulous performances. Once could conclude that it's down to several different variables but the deciding factors are probably a change of scenery along with a manager who believes in his talent. Combine that with getting to play in a run of games. Let's also assume that Pienaar now feels like he's an integral part of the squad and a big contributor to our success.

'probably'??? are we suggesting reasons for performance?

In my opinion, that's how it's played out and now the supporters are clamoring for his loan to be made permanent, as it should be.

So.....

...we haven't arrived to the Manny getting settled in part yet so where does that leave us Suits? You can't deny that Pienaar improved over the course of the season (the odd "lapse of concentration" aside I might add) so why shouldn't be Manny given the same opportunity without the stick that Pienaar didn't come anywhere close to getting from supporters like you (unless I missed the post where you thought Pienaar should have been sent packing back to Dortmund after the penalty box foul against Manchester United....)

munny settled in? he had a few months last season a period over the summer and then this past month to six weeks to reacquaint himself with the manager, club and players. most of which he already knew. Also, i wasnt clamoring for munny to be sent packing for losing his man at chelsea last season when they scored their only goal of the game.

I've already stated on numerous occasions that if it doesn't work out with Manny, then I'll be the first to put my hand up and say, "Hey, it didn't work with Manny" and he'll be shipped off back to Valencia after his loan is completed.

no issue with that, its not some brinkmanship type game with rewards and punishments, i'd have liked it to work out for munny in the summer at what was thought to be £8mill. but we all know what happened then.

having glimpsed good play from numerous individuals in the squad it makes it difficult to accept substandard performances. or dare i say substandard effort.
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there.
 

Reasoning for displays that are less that what I feel Manny can produce. Fitness and fitting in with the squad. Suits, you're the one talking about his motivation and heart, not me. So be sure that you understand why I'm taking an opposing view from you on this. It's not to do with his motivation, it's to do with what kind of shape he's in now and having very few matches under his belt.

Logic and railroading someone? Again, I'm not sure what you're saying there but if you're saying that I've erred in making what most would consider a reasonable assumption about Pienaar's arrival and what happened after he'd played awhile and Manny's arrival and what may happen after he's played awhile, then I can't help you there. By the way, that same logic (not railroading anyone here mind you) would apply to both Yakubu, Jags, and how they started to play after settling in with the squad.

Suggesting reasons for performance? Yes, I am. Uh oh, there's that pesky logic again and me going on to make reasonable assumptions.

(Emphasis on "reasonable". Let me give you an example of an assumption that isn't reasonable. Football played at the highest level in England. Football played in the USA but certainly not at the highest level. An assumption that would not be reasonable would be that Americans who follow the game don't know as much as their English counterparts because their football is substandard in comparison.)

Ok, you're saying he's settled in. I'm saying he hasn't. Fair enough. We agree to disagree on that one. No doubt his performances have been substandard compared to the Manny we've seen in the past but they haven't been horrible by any stretch.
 
"what most would consider"

"reasonable assumption"

how much settling in is needed? he settled in last season. if and its a sizable 'if' munny has issues with settling in and such needs over a month to find his game then im against signing him completely. imagine he is in the first eleven when the season starts but only starts performing in october - how many games do we carry him for so he can settle?

i have clutched at straws regarding him recently, is the court case with the cops in spain on his mind? does he still have the same or a different agent now? is he lapse because he is trying to help the club secure a reduced fee for him in the summer?

if he isnt fully fit he shouldnt be starting. its too important a season for us to be carrying anyone.
 
SuitsBlue said:
"what most would consider"

"reasonable assumption"

how much settling in is needed? he settled in last season. if and its a sizable 'if' munny has issues with settling in and such needs over a month to find his game then im against signing him completely. imagine he is in the first eleven when the season starts but only starts performing in october - how many games do we carry him for so he can settle?

i have clutched at straws regarding him recently, is the court case with the cops in spain on his mind? does he still have the same or a different agent now? is he lapse because he is trying to help the club secure a reduced fee for him in the summer?

if he isnt fully fit he shouldnt be starting. its too important a season for us to be carrying anyone.
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So am I to understand that by you saying that "we're carrying him" that he's been a liability on the pitch? And by that reasoning, we're carrying Neville at this point as well.

He hasn't been what we think he can be but he hasn't been a liability either and therefore Everton aren't "carrying him" until he gets to where he needs to be.

He hasn't contributed as much as we'd like or want, no doubting that.
 
Looks like a pretty stronng line up tonight, and Yobo is out for some reason:-


-------------------- Howard -------------------

--- Neville --- Jagielka --- Lescott --- Valente ----

--- Arteta --- Carsley --- Cahill --- Pienaar -----

------------- AJ --- Yakubu ---------------

Sub : Wessel, Hibbert, Baines, Fernandes, Osman, Vaughan, Anichebe

With this starting line up I think we should get through without too much problem
 

did yobo pick up an injury we don't know about? strange to leave out a key defender in a game where defense is needed above all else... other than that, just about the best side we can put out there.
 

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