Everton reopen talks with Sam Allardyce

[Moomin]

It's November. We're one win off 12th and not even in the relegation zone, we have a transfer window coming up and, despite how it looks, we have a squad which has much more quality than any other in the bottom 10.

The situation is not as desperate as it seems if you step back and look at it logically. We just need a manager in who sends the right message out to the club and the league; a plan basically. That doesn't have to be Sam Allardyce; if it was, say, Fonseca, you get the same effect. We don't have to stamp "we're mediocre and have no morals" across our entire club by panicking into hiring an actual crook.

 

[Tubey]

I'm not saying it's fine - I'm saying it hasn't reached the point of having the nuclear option of Allardyce be on the table.

Or to put it another day, Allardyce would be a symptom of extreme incompetence from the club rather than a solution.

 

[Seathestars]

As far as I see it after the Southampton game we either get him or go down.
Heads need to roll in the boardroom and other levels.

 

[Elong]

Do we have a choice between throwing our morals and ethics away and... not doing that?

Yes, yes we do.

We're in a relegation fight, yes, but not so desperate as to throw our entire identity down the drain for a proven crook. I'd rather take the risk with a more unknown manager. I still don't believe we'll go down whoever we have as manager - even Unsworth - the fact we're not even in the relegation zone and one win off 12th despite being unimaginably bad shows the state of this league; it's not panic stations yet to the point where Sam bloody Allardyce should be an option.

Apparently we don't Tubey, because we're not in charge of that decision, and the crooks who are obviously don't want to try hard enough.

 

[Mosh Pit]

Davek - provide us with some of that optimism you tend to dish out when we're all flapping. You're needed now more than ever mate. I just woke up and realized it wasn't a bad dream

 

[bluestevon]

Individually, most if not all of our team would walk into any of the bottom eight to ten sides in this league, with most being automatic starters and star players.

It's a form issue and a lack of balance; not quality. The squad lacks direction and confidence, but could click into life at any point - looking at the fixtures coming up we could easily suddenly win four of the next five and be wondering what the hell the panic was about.

That's not delusion; it's fact. It's a talented squad but a horribly deflated team lacking any sense of cohesion.

Bingo mate, basically we can't structure a decent side because whatever we try is undermined by individuals within the side being absolutely shocking and that spreads to the entire team, we need to try get by as best we can do until January - players returning will aid that and in january patch up those areas that are undermining the rest of the team.

Find it funny that people think Allardyce will come in and sure up this team instantly - yeah because this is his record at Sunderland after taking over

17 October 20159 West Bromwich Albion 1–0 Sunderland [show]West Bromwich
25 October 201510 Sunderland 3–0 Newcastle United [show]Sunderland
1 November 201511 Everton 6–2 Sunderland [show]Liverpool
7 November 201512 Sunderland 0–1 Southampton [show]Sunderland
23 November 201513 Crystal Palace 0–1 Sunderland [show]London
28 November 201514 Sunderland 2–0 Stoke City [show]Sunderland
5 December 201515 Arsenal 3–1 Sunderland [show]London
12 December 201516 Sunderland 0–1 Watford [show]Sunderland
19 December 201517 Chelsea 3–1 Sunderland [show]London
26 December 201518 Manchester City 4–1 Sunderland [show]Manchester
30 December 201519 Sunderland 0–1 Liverpool

First 11 games, 3 wins 8 losses - in 11 games - so 9 out of a possible 33 points, worse than we are by a decent way so far.

11 scored - 20 conceded.

Thats his form from early October until the January transfer window opened and he was able to make changes - so basically Allardyce was terrible at Sunderland until he could bring players in himself - there was no new manager bounce, no great tactical changes with a terrible squad that fixed things, what he did is exactly what any manager we brought in could do - he bought players to fix problems - short term in all cases for Sunderland btw.

Oh for context here is his first games in charge of Palace as well

201618 Watford 1–1 Crystal Palace [show]Watford
1 January 201719 Arsenal 2–0 Crystal Palace [show]Holloway
3 January 201720 Crystal Palace 1–2 Swansea City [show]Selhurst
14 January 201721 West Ham United 3–0 Crystal Palace [show]Stratford
21 January 201722 Crystal Palace 0–1 Everton [show]Selhurst
31 January 201723 AFC Bournemouth 0–2 Crystal Palace [show]Bournemouth
4 February 201724 Crystal Palace 0–4 Sunderland [show]Selhurst
11 February 201725 Stoke City 1–0 Crystal Palace

First 8 games, 1 win, 1 draw, 6 losses - so 4 points out of a possible 24 - again massively worse than our current ppg totals.

Scored 4 goals, conceded 14 goals.

Could also show his last 12 games in charge of the biggest club he's managed before us, but that would make very very grim reading indeed.

@mikeh72 , @Eggs

 

[Moomin]

I'm not saying it's fine - I'm saying it hasn't reached the point of having the nuclear option of Allardyce be on the table.

Or to put it another day, Allardyce would be a symptom of extreme incompetence from the club rather than a solution.

Think its extreme incompetence.

I can't believe they had no-one lined up to replace Koeman before firing him. 5 weeks later and we have come to this.

Sam has already turned down a contract to the end of the season. Now he is getting 2.5 year contract and all his demands met according to what I've been told. Big backroom staff is coming with himm

 

[Elong]

Any semi competent manager avoids relegation. It's hard to be relegated. The fact our board couldn't attract anyone shows why we need concerted protests to hound them out starting this week

Why are you asking the fans? We know this. BK and Mosh don't have the ambition to match it.

 

[Elong]

I'm not saying it's fine - I'm saying it hasn't reached the point of having the nuclear option of Allardyce be on the table.

Or to put it another day, Allardyce would be a symptom of extreme incompetence from the club rather than a solution.

If that isn't abundantly clear right now it never will be! lol

 

[gonetomorrow]

I hope Sammy Lee doesn't come along too.

That's a Little and Large Show I don't want to see repeats of.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Why are you asking the fans? We know this. BK and Mosh don't have the ambition to match it.

The sad reality is that nothing happens at this club until there are banners, anger, widespread fan unrest. Call me naive or whatever, but I firmly believe that. I think we need to force boardroom changes.

 

[bluestevon]

....it’s fine saying we’re one win off 12th if we have the capability of winning games but we don’t.

Why does Allardyce change this mate, see the stats for the post i just tagged you in - showing his intiial periods of 8-11 games at his last two clubs?

 

[MikeH72]

Michael Keane was linked with United six months ago ffs. Coleman is on his way back, Bolasie - for all his faults - adds pace of sorts when he returns.

We have the worst players in terms of form - that's all. They are all individually proven to be better than what they currently are showing.

Jagielka and Williams are bottom half Championship players.

Kenny is currently a Championship defender with potential.

Keane is a mid table Premier League player with some potential left to improve.

Baines is a top level Championship player who can do a job as back up in the Premier League.

Martina is a midtable League 1 player.

Gueye is a bottom half Premier League player who's had one very good half of a season.

Schneiderlin is a good Premier League footballer but completely uninterested in playing for Everton.

Davies is currently a bottom half Premier League player with potential.

Sigurdsson is a mid table/bottom half Premier League player.

Mirallas is a literal waste of a wage.

Lennon is a bottom half Premier League player.

Rooney is a bottom half Premier League player.

Niasse is a competent mid table/bottom half Premier League player.

DCL is currently a top Championship player with potential.

This squad is very very poor. That might be hard to accept for people, but it's just the fachts.

 

[Elong]

The sad reality is that nothing happens at this club until there are banners, anger, widespread fan unrest. Call me naive or whatever, but I firmly believe that. I think we need to force boardroom changes.

Best of luck from afar. I think it makes us look like Geordie whoppers. It's sad, but as long as the punters keep going and liking the facebook positive videos and buying the replicas they will stay, because it's a business for them, not a football club, and the hiring of Sam is simply to keep their investment profitable.

 

[bluestevon]

He is the one most likely to.

On that point, who do you think it would be?

There is a host of managers - some out of work, some in work who are obtainable mate

Our problem seems to be as a club we can't do more than one thing at a time, be that trying to sign a striker, be that trying to sign more than one player at a time, or be that trying to attract a manager


the likes of Fonseca, Silva, AVB, Dyce (sick in mouth) should have all been having approaches made via their agents simultaneously, could throw another half dozen names into the list of managers good enough to have dragged us through - in similar fashion to what allardyce will do unti, January and then address the areas we need fixing

because 100% we are hiring a manager who will not make any significant difference until he can bring in players - and these players will be the ultimate in short term fixes for 6 months on 3-4 year contracts.