Everton v West Brom. Sat 24th Aug. @ 15.00.

[GoatJR]

all the time when jelavic had the ball we went to the defence

 

[royalblue66]

Thought the arl fella off the Barclay advert had a good reception at the match.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I dont recall 22 chances.

Just another example of stats being useless.

Or your memory being useless. Not a criticism just an observation mate. Mine is useless too. I blame drug abuse personally. Drugs abused me for many years.

 

[Goat]

Or your memory being useless. Not a criticism just an observation mate. Mine is useless too. I blame drug abuse personally. Drugs abused me for many years.

Drugs are bad mkay.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Drugs are bad mkay.

Ain't that the truth. Look they're making us go off topic. Come on Martinez!!!

 

[davek]

Christ, I shouldn't have to spell this out for someone like you. We challenged for the top 4 until the last few games of the season last year. That gives us a much stronger pull for players coming in and also to keep players at the club. Most other years we'd have been in Europe. Also, £3m less prize money by last year's numbers. If we finished 10th we'd lose everyone as our squad's jam-packed with top 6 quality players who have zero business scrapping around with WBA and Norwich.

We also, crucially, have a manager nowhere near as adept at signing quality for nothing as his predecessor. We wouldn't be in a very good position at all. I think you're idea of a mid-table finish and then challenging for Europe the next year is fanciful, to put it mildly.

No sorry, I'm still not getting this. You're telling me that if Martinez has us finishing 10th, then that'll mean next season we lose existing star players and see us failing to attract others - the outcome of not finishing higher. But here we are after that season you mention up there and we're selling our best now and not attracting anyone in.

Are you sure about this theory of yours mate?

 

[paulbefc]

No sorry, I'm still not getting this. You're telling me that if Martinez has us finishing 10th, then that'll mean next season we lose existing star players and see us failing to attract others - the outcome of not finishing higher. But here we are after that season you mention up there and we're selling our best now and not attracting anyone in.

Are you sure about this theory of yours mate?

It doesn't look like we've tried yet. Martinez appears to have got his favoured lads and Deulofeu in and has focused on bedding them in, with any other business seemingly to be done late on/after sales.

The fact is, if we hadn't been in and around the top 6 these last few years, we'd not have been able to tie Baines and Fellaini and God knows who else down as we'd be showing zero signs of fulfilling their ambitions. Right now we put up a fight in these situations due to the fact we are a top 6 team, like the RS have done with Suarez. We've kept Fellaini for 5 years and he's been a highly rated young Belgian int'l for the whole duration. We've kept Baines for 6 and he's been the best left back, arguably in the world for 3 of them. If we go down to tenth, our players leaving will be a formality as we'll have no ambition of european football to offer them. As if Fellaini would suffer a 10th place finish. He'd probably be off by January ffs.

On players coming in, last year we signed Mirallas, for example. He goes to Arsenal and doesn't look twice at us if Everton had finished 10th in the league, no question there (we probably wouldn't have been able to afford him tbf) and he'll be off if we finish 10th next season, no questions there either, as he's an ambitious player.

And again, both finances and our transfer dealings will be weaker, also.

 

[Tree13]

No sorry, I'm still not getting this. You're telling me that if Martinez has us finishing 10th, then that'll mean next season we lose existing star players and see us failing to attract others - the outcome of not finishing higher. But here we are after that season you mention up there and we're selling our best now and not attracting anyone in.

Are you sure about this theory of yours mate?

To be fair, he's partially right. If Bill had sanctioned any proper transfer funds, we might have found ourselves attracting some decent players. We'll never know for sure, but if we could have raised the transfer fees for the likes of Van Wolfswinkel, Giaccherini or Medel we would know if players viewed Everton as a more attractive club to play for than Norwich, Sunderland or Cardiff. Not saying I would necessarily want those players, but we've not really gone up against another team for a potential signing yet.

 

[paulbefc]

To be fair, he's partially right. If Bill had sanctioned any proper transfer funds, we might have found ourselves attracting some decent players. We'll never know for sure, but if we could have raised the transfer fees for the likes of Van Wolfswinkel, Giaccherini or Medel we would know if players viewed Everton as a more attractive club to play for than Norwich, Sunderland or Cardiff. Not saying I would necessarily want those players, but we've not really gone up against another team for a potential signing yet.

It's pretty simple. Do you want to play with Mirallas, Fellaini, Baines etc for the 4th most successful club in England and 6th best team in the league with ambitions of CL/EL football or... well, Swansea/Sland/Norwich? No wonder Fer was trying his best to get us to bid for him in the press early in the summer before he settled for Norwich.

 

[davek]

It doesn't look like we've tried yet. Martinez appears to have got his favoured lads and Deulofeu in and has focused on bedding them in, with any other business seemingly to be done late on/after sales.

The fact is, if we hadn't been in and around the top 6 these last few years, we'd not have been able to tie Baines and Fellaini and God knows who else down as we'd be showing zero signs of fulfilling their ambitions. Right now we put up a fight in these situations due to the fact we are a top 6 team, like the RS have done with Suarez. We've kept Fellaini for 5 years and he's been a highly rated young Belgian int'l for the whole duration. We've kept Baines for 6 and he's been the best left back, arguably in the world for 3 of them. If we go down to tenth, our players leaving will be a formality as we'll have no ambition of european football to offer them. As if Fellaini would suffer a 10th place finish. He'd probably be off by January ffs.

On players coming in, last year we signed Mirallas, for example. He goes to Arsenal and doesn't look twice at us if Everton had finished 10th in the league, no question there (we probably wouldn't have been able to afford him tbf) and he'll be off if we finish 10th next season, no questions there either, as he's an ambitious player.

And again, both finances and our transfer dealings will be weaker, also.

Players will stay and go where the cash is. Why are players signing for Norwich and Southampton who would be decent for us? Why haven't we attracted them? Either choosing to stay or join us, players aren't going to see finishing 6th as opposed to 10th as significant in their decision making.

 

[paulbefc]

Players will stay and go where the cash is. Why are players signing for Norwich and Southampton who would be decent for us? Why haven't we attracted them? Either choosing to stay or join us, players aren't going to see finishing 6th as opposed to 10th as significant in their decision making.

Because Martinez spent all our budget on Wigan players that he wanted from the start.

 

[davek]

To be fair, he's partially right. If Bill had sanctioned any proper transfer funds, we might have found ourselves attracting some decent players. We'll never know for sure, but if we could have raised the transfer fees for the likes of Van Wolfswinkel, Giaccherini or Medel we would know if players viewed Everton as a more attractive club to play for than Norwich, Sunderland or Cardiff. Not saying I would necessarily want those players, but we've not really gone up against another team for a potential signing yet.

Choices based on status for players are between joining trophy winning clubs and non-trophy winning clubs. Outside of that consideration it'll just come down to personal terms. Look at us last year with Nzonzi for example. Just went to Stoke because he could get a better wedge...same with Adam.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's a transition season mate. Things won't click for a good few months yet and in those months there are going to be more frustrating results like yesterday. It was never going to happen over night and this needs to be done for the sake of progress.

You sound like you should be the owner of Chelsea or Man City, if things aren't looking rosy for a few weeks, kneejerk and look for a replacement pronto.

I am not kneejerk at all mate, I just don't think we should delude ourselves that yesterday was a good enough performance. Does that mean Martinez should be sacked? No. Does that mean he can't be a success? no. But it's the match thread from yesterdays match, and it wasn't of the standards you would expect.

I also don't get this "transition" stuff. It's a kop out. He inherited a settled squad, filled with internationals, who for the last 7/8 years or so have been in around the top 6/7 year on year. Of course some changes needed to be made. We drew too many games last year (already a worrying sign from this year). But in any walk of life, there's no point making changes that end up damaging performance. Make changes that improve the performance.
If the new MD of Morrisons makes changes that mean they slip from say, 5th to 8th in the world share, do you think he could save himself by saying "I am making changes"? Making changes, or wooly ideas like "changing the philosophy" is not to be substituted for hard facts. Any new manager will be judged on the previous performance, and his ability to improve upon it. If he is unable to do this, get rid of him, and find someone who can.
I am not saying get rid of Martinez, he should be given the season, and we should see how he performs. But this bizarre idea, that we'll almost lap up a 10th place finish uncritically goes against the very ethos of this football club. We are the team that sacked a manager in a taxi for finishing 5th. A club where achieving the best you possibly can, is inprinted on our psyche. Whether you are in your first year, 5th year, 10th year or whatever, dropping down 3/4 places in the league will never be good enough.

 

[davek]

I am not kneejerk at all mate, I just don't think we should delude ourselves that yesterday was a good enough performance. Does that mean Martinez should be sacked? No. Does that mean he can't be a success? no. But it's the match thread from yesterdays match, and it wasn't of the standards you would expect.

I also don't get this "transition" stuff. It's a kop out. He inherited a settled squad, filled with internationals, who for the last 7/8 years or so have been in around the top 6/7 year on year. Of course some changes needed to be made. We drew too many games last year (already a worrying sign from this year). But in any walk of life, there's no point making changes that end up damaging performance. Make changes that improve the performance.
If the new MD of Morrisons makes changes that mean they slip from say, 5th to 8th in the world share, do you think he could save himself by saying "I am making changes"? Making changes, or wooly ideas like "changing the philosophy" is not to be substituted for hard facts. Any new manager will be judged on the previous performance, and his ability to improve upon it. If he is unable to do this, get rid of him, and find someone who can.
I am not saying get rid of Martinez, he should be given the season, and we should see how he performs. But this bizarre idea, that we'll almost lap up a 10th place finish uncritically goes against the very ethos of this football club. We are the team that sacked a manager in a taxi for finishing 5th. A club where achieving the best you possibly can, is inprinted on our psyche. Whether you are in your first year, 5th year, 10th year or whatever, dropping down 3/4 places in the league will never be good enough.

We last won a trophy in 1995 mate. I don't think Martinez needs to feel too much like he's letting the side down.

 

[catcherintherye]

This just may be the funniest thing I've ever read on here.

So you accept 10th do you mate?