Match Thread Everton v West Ham. 5th March at 1500.

[BlueToff]

Stutter and you miss a penalty. Crap defending and not closing down crosses,which we can't defend.
I assume Dennis Lawrence is the defensive coach , totally out of his depth.

The thing is, we were doing it fine when Lennon was on.

Barkley's half-arsed attempt at blocking Payet's cross for their second is disgusting in that instance.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I have no idea mate.

I said to my dad at the time, what a weird sub. There was no need for it.

The penalty miss was bad, and Rom had a sitter after that as well that he missed, but defensively it hadn't looked to have shaken us up.

But that change baffled me, as our weakness had been crosses into the area (it has been for ages so it's not like I blame RM for that in this game - it's just how it is) but the point is that Lennon was getting back to defend those crosses as well as getting up the pitch.

I get the logic in fresh legs, but there was no need for it at that point as Lennon didn't look tired. If anyone should have gone off it should have been Rom or Barks.

It's horrible because for 75 minutes that was genuinely our best display of the season. He got the shape bang on at the start by matching their formation and when Kev got sent off he got the shape and tactics spot on.

Rom missed the penalty when God will only know why he didn't hammer it home with power, but even though that shook us we still were in control, although we were losing it a bit and thought yeh we could do with some fresh legs. But he completely messed up by taking Lennon off.

I still don't want him sacked but it's a disgrace from him and the experienced players on the pitch in that last 15 minutes to let that happen. W.Ham were kept at bay and then we concede and collapse.

Dreadful and it puts him under a lot more pressure, even though in the grand scheme of things there isn't much difference now between a point and a defeat - it's just the manner of it.

So, all in all:

Negatives - the entire last 15 minutes. One goal conceded and we fell apart. Something we looked to have gotten away from. Down to RM for a mental change in tact and down to the players (i'm looking at the three around the ball for Sakho's goal and the four around the ball for Payet's - in fairness the first one you've got to say was a great cross and good header).

Lukaku's miss for the penalty. Too casual and he has to take responsibility of just smashing that down the middle.

Positives - found a way of playing at home which, with 11 men, looked very dangerous and with 10 men (before that change) looked very solid and capable of counter-attacking brilliantly.

Besic was great and him and McCarthy looked good together. They never got through our midfield with them two in there and in home games I think that's the way to go (with them as a pairing). Lennon is immense at the moment as well.

As I said, for 75 minutes (bar the penalty miss) our best display in ages. Genuinely fantastic and they were all doing fine.

Stupid sub by RM and the pressure now is well and truly on. I still don't think he's gonna go before the season is out but he needs to start to get a grip of this situation. He looked to have learned and he's shoved that down all our faces who stuck with him.

Now, i'm not like hurt as such or anything, and to be fair it's not the actual defeat that bothers me as such it's the total manner that the team capitulated and the lack of any tactical nous (after showing he is more than capable of it for the first 75 minutes) that RM showed.

That's fair assessment.

We have absolutely no clue how to see a game out in the last 20mins.

The sub was crazy, if it was for Barry and we got beat I couldn't have argued except to blame the team, but it was a mental sub. Fresh legs, yep, but another attacker when we are a man down was suicide! Especially for Niasse who clearly isn't upto speed yet.

The coaching to stop this happening needs to improve all around. Embarrassing collapse.

 

[BlueToff]

Not cloud 9 at all. I totally disagree with you.

We'd have to pay him about 250k a week and he knows that he can be at United in three months. x

 

[Jimmy1]

Just after Lukaku missed the penalty I had that feeling I'm sure we all get. So I had a look on betfair at the odds of West Ham winning. I think it was like 200-1. I had £4 in my account and was seriously tempted to put it on but thought nah surely we cant mess this up again.

I fuming about this now!! Double fume. Id at least be able to console myself with about £800. I should have done it as it was only £4 outlay. The bastards. Absolute bastards.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

We're only 11 points off 5th though.

 

[AJC5]

Very confused. Started the game very brightly for once. Full of energy and move. Take a deserved lead. Red card was harsh. First booking was debatable, second was never a yellow card. Mirallas is a def. for giving that twunt the opportunity but he was pulling out of the tackle, wasn't dangerous or cynical and 99% of refs would just have had a word. Ridiculous decision. We then played extremely well for the next 45 mins. Very solid and created chances going forward. We should have made it 3-0. Besic sub at half time made a big difference. He is definitely our best centre midfielder. We need to build the team around him.

The Lennon sub was terrible. Firstly, our shape was perfect, we looked more like getting a third than conceding so there was no need to change it unless someone was out on their feet or injured. Secondly, that was never the game to bring Niasse on in. He has looked abysmal so far and continued that today. I think we've been had off big time. Doesn't look like a pro. footballer let alone our most expensive player. The ball just bounces off him. The Barry substitution was also extremely pointless.

Given the choice I'd get a new manager. Do want to let Martinez near that war chest.

 

[streeky]

For me it's not about Personnel or individual errors or even so called bad defending, it's about a man with a Eufa pro licence having no understanding about pressure on the ball when the opposition have it.

 

[BlueToff]

That's fair assessment.

We have absolutely no clue how to see a game out in the last 20mins.

The sub was crazy, if it was for Barry and we got beat I couldn't have argued except to blame the team, but it was a mental sub. Fresh legs, yep, but another attacker when we are a man down was suicide! Especially for Niasse who clearly isn't upto speed yet.

The coaching to stop this happening needs to improve all around. Embarrassing collapse.

Yeh I know mate. As I said won't defend any of them for that last 15 mins. Rom messed up big style for the pen but that happens. In that situation, having managed the game so well for the first 75 mins, there was no need to take Lennon off. We were doing fine.

 

[eternal_defiance]

We'd have to pay him about 250k a week and he knows that he can be at United in three months. x

It is quite clear the man utd hierarchy do not want Mourinho. Xx

 

[Ring master]

We're only 11 points off 5th though.

yeah,and a win for us today,would have had us 8th with results going our way today,ha when we cock it up results go our way,when we win =everybody else around us wins lol we would have been 6 behind 5th place,ha typical everton that lol

 

[peteblue]

It's sickening to be 2-0 up (should have been 3) but still in control and then to make the change. There was no need to change, but he does anyway. Everyone in the ground and everyone on here would have said if you insist on taking Lennon off then put Barry on and see the game out. This is not some wonderful hindsight just bleeding common sense. As soon as he did what he did we knew what came next........I haven't felt this pissed of since Moyes threw the Anfield game.....

 

[BlueToff]

Very confused. Started the game very brightly for once. Full of energy and move. Take a deserved lead. Red card was harsh. First booking was debatable, second was never a yellow card. Mirallas is a def. for giving that twunt the opportunity but he was pulling out of the tackle, wasn't dangerous or cynical and 99% of refs would just have had a word. Ridiculous decision. We then played extremely well for the next 45 mins. Very solid and created chances going forward. We should have made it 3-0. Besic sub at half time made a big difference. He is definitely our best centre midfielder. We need to build the team around him.

The Lennon sub was terrible. Firstly, our shape was perfect, we looked more like getting a third than conceding so there was no need to change it unless someone was out on their feet or injured. Secondly, that was never the game to bring Niasse on in. He has looked abysmal so far and continued that today. I think we've been had off big time. Doesn't look like a pro. footballer let alone our most expensive player. The ball just bounces off him. The Barry substitution was also extremely pointless.

Given the choice I'd get a new manager. Do want to let Martinez near that war chest.

Apart from the last bit I agree 100% mate.

RM knows how to find a good player.

Do feel he may be gone if we get hammered next week by Chelsea like.

 

[streeky]

Lukaku always dues that and usually scores - the fact the keeper is stood on his six yard line when he saves it it was a gift of of a pen should have been scored end of cost us big time!

Sorry if I'm wrong I don't really remember Rom doing such a significant stop in his run up. I have seen a lot of penalties missed lately with the check run up.

 

[maccavennie]

It'd be easy to hammer Mirallas - stupidly turning gangster with the bookings again after his good game v Villa. Itd be easy to have a word with Lukaku for his miss. But we were still 2-0 up with 10 men and thats where the game was lost. Substituting Aaron Lennon who had another great attacking game was a disaster - denying the other 9 men a teammate who gives us so much more than his forward play in chasing and harrying back surely vital moreso with a man sent off ? It wasn't Niasse's time. It wasn't any forwards time never mind a new signing. It was time - at 2-0 up - to consolidate, make the most of our advantage...batten down the hatches and get the three points. Nah. Disgraceful.

The even bigger issue there,and it's been mentioned a few times is when these type of players get subbed or aren't in the team ( the ones who chase down and work hard )then it goes absolutely tits up because there's only about 3 of them who do it.

That's a massive issue and has been for so long now, the lack of pressing is alarming so it's inevitable balls in the box are going to create goal scoring opportunities.

Surely it would have been a better idea to sub Ross who is obviously told not to do any defensive responsibilities whatsoever and keep Lennon out there.

I'm not as gutted as I usually am and that's for the simple reason that if it continues a new manager will be brought in who won't allow these lapses to continue whether that be fitness, mental or tactical issues.

Martinez's time I feel has very nearly run its course because defeats like today just show him up for the naive manager he is.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Thats basically all the games we have drawn or lost numbers wise.

Just think where we'd be if we'd not lost the lead in those games.

If I was manager with this kind of problem, I would have dedicated all resources with immediate effect to addressing the problem a long time ago. If I was still failing then it has to be either the players (that I pick) or me.

I mean that is obviously going on already as what do I know about football. Isn't it?

Please bear in mind the players in question are experienced international players. So what is going on?

Martinez is not doing his reputation as a manager any favours here.

I've done coaching and managing (albeit of obviously a lot smaller teams/age groups) and it's not shameful to ask for some help, or get another coach in to help with that in the long term. Organisation is key in any level of football, and it's something Martinez seems unable to either instil or understand.

Seeing as we improved ever so slightly in some aspects in the last... 3 (I think? Basically since we started booing him at every home game) months, I'd say some work has been done, but it's clear it's not enough, and judging by the things coaches have said to players about set pieces (like Jones to Osman in his autobiography, I believe it was) he's unarsed about them, for example, and seems to be too stubborn to change his obviously wrong ways.

Unbelievable if so, considering he's managing a big club in the Premier League. Maybe in the Championship/L1/L2 he got away with some of those corners and stuff, because of the levels players are at and so on, but this is absolutely ridiculous if he thinks he can still get away with it at this level.