Everton Youth Teams Thread

[JimmyK]

Surely the judge of any U23 coach is how many players are successfully introduced into the first team?
Winning titles is a pleasing by-product but not the ultimate purpose.
On current evidence Unsworth is failing to fulfil his primary aim.
Holgate and Calvert- Lewin had already progressed to the first team of their respective clubs prior to our purchase, and their stay in the U23’s was therefore relatively brief.
Which leaves just Davies who he can garner any credit for.
Personally I think it would be beneficial to both parties if Unsworth was encouraged to move on.

I agree, but I think we also need to acknowledge 2 things.

Firstly you can't turn straw into gold. You can only really criticise Unsworth for not turning people into first teamers if it would be reasonable to believe that another coach would have done so. The jury's out on that I think, it's not as if a load of lads have moved on from our youth system and become Premier League stars elsewhere, so it's possible that he just hasn't had players with the required talent to progress past the multitude of internationals who can't even get on our bench, nevermind the ones who are in the team.

Secondly, turning players into first teamers is, to some extent, out of the junior coach's hands. If Silva had picked Dowell and Baningime last year would that automatically mean Unsworth had done a better job, even if the players were only at the same level as they are now? There'd be no difference at all in the job he was doing, but your logic would mean he'd be doing literally twice as well at his job. That can't be right surely?

I have no idea if he's a great coach or a terrible one really, but nor do most people who are putting the boot in to him on here.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Wh

I agree, but I think we also need to acknowledge 2 things.

Firstly you can't turn straw into gold. You can only really criticise Unsworth for not turning people into first teamers if it would be reasonable to believe that another coach would have done so. The jury's out on that I think, it's not as if a load of lads have moved on from our youth system and become Premier League stars elsewhere, so it's possible that he just hasn't had players with the required talent to progress past the multitude of internationals who can't even get on our bench, nevermind the ones who are in the team.

Secondly, turning players into first teamers is, to some extent, out of the junior coach's hands. If Silva had picked Dowell and Baningime last year would that automatically mean Unsworth had done a better job, even if the players were only at the same level as they are now? There'd be no difference at all in the job he was doing, but your logic would mean he'd be doing literally twice as well at his job. That can't be right surely?

I have no idea if he's a great coach or a terrible one really, but nor do most people who are putting the boot in to him on here.

Even if Silva had picked Dowell or Baningime last season they could not be considered a success until they had fully established themselves in the squad.
In the end I was just expressing an opinion on Unsworth as I would any other player , coach or official of the club I support, based on my own observations and information available to me. Which is one of the purposes of a football forum I suppose.
In any case I am still of the considered opinion that it is time for Unsworth go and manage a lower league club, something I think he is well suited for , and for us to attempt to find different coach whose style may better complement the first team.

 

[JimmyK]

Wh

Even if Silva had picked Dowell or Baningime last season they could not be considered a success until they had fully established themselves in the squad.
In the end I was just expressing an opinion on Unsworth as I would any other player , coach or official of the club I support, based on my own observations and information available to me. Which is one of the purposes of a football forum I suppose.
In any case I am still of the considered opinion that it is time for Unsworth go and manage a lower league club, something I think he is well suited for , and for us to attempt to find different coach whose style may better complement the first team.

Sorry if it came across like I was saying you shouldn't have an opinion, that's not what I meant. I was talking more about people who have never/hardly actually seen an under 23 game passing an opinion on the quality of football and coaching and the motivations of the manager.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

You would think any coach of an under 23 team that wins the league title twice in 3 years and wins the cup would be sought after as a manager for a lower league club, and yet.....?

 

[mightymoyes]

You would think any coach of an under 23 team that wins the league title twice in 3 years and wins the cup would be sought after as a manager for a lower league club, and yet.....?

And yet what?
He's been linked with jobs in the lower leagues previously

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Sorry if it came across like I was saying you shouldn't have an opinion, that's not what I meant. I was talking more about people who have never/hardly actually seen an under 23 game passing an opinion on the quality of football and coaching and the motivations of the manager.

No probs.
Just for the record ,apart from the season just passed , I have usually attended half a dozen or so U23 matches every season.
I have always felt Unsworth was a solid, efficient but ultimately unexceptional coach.
He did well last season juggling his resources, and is an Evertonian through and through none of which alters my current opinion of him.
It’s all opinions and it will be Brands opinion that matters most going forwards.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

And yet what?
He's been linked with jobs in the lower leagues previously

But he is looking forward to another season as U23 coach here... whats the upside for him next season at Everton?

 

[mightymoyes]

But he is looking forward to another season as U23 coach here... whats the upside for him next season at Everton?

I assume he's happy and likes his job, if only everyone was as lucky

 

[JimmyK]

But he is looking forward to another season as U23 coach here... whats the upside for him next season at Everton?

He gets handsomely paid to work for the club he supports, possibly with an age group that he likes working with and a remit that he enjoys, with less pressure than he would as a first team manager, and probably surrounded by a load of his mates? Sounds like a fair few upsides to me.

Senior team management isn't for everyone, I wouldn't necessarily look unfavourably on a coach or a manager of a junior side who decides that taking the step up to the big job isn't for them, just as I wouldn't look down on somebody who doesn't go into work every day waiting for their chance to become CEO of their company.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

He gets handsomely paid to work for the club he supports, possibly with an age group that he likes working with and a remit that he enjoys, with less pressure than he would as a first team manager, and probably surrounded by a load of his mates? Sounds like a fair few upsides to me.

Senior team management isn't for everyone, I wouldn't necessarily look unfavourably on a coach or a manager of a junior side who decides that taking the step up to the big job isn't for them, just as I wouldn't look down on somebody who doesn't go into work every day waiting for their chance to become CEO of their company.

SO if youre Marcel and you have a performance conversation with him ahead of hte new season, whats the goals you would give him?

 

[JimmyK]

SO if youre Marcel and you have a performance conversation with him ahead of hte new season, whats the goals you would give him?

Honestly I don’t know, because I don’t know what brands’ vision for the youth set up, or just how good some of the young players are.

If Simms, Astley And Gordon (just for example) are seen as having the potential to be pushing for the first team squad them I would be saying make sure you maximise their potential. If not, and we see this bunch as pretty ordinary, then I’d say just do the best you can and we’ll see how it goes.

As I said earlier, it’s no good saying we should be picking this 16 year old in the under 23s if the club doesn’t think it’s the right thing to do, and it’s no good saying we should be making players into first teamers if they just don’t have the requisite level of ability.

I’m happy to judge a first team manager because I’m confident I know enough about their remit and resources, and see enough of what they’re producing in comparison to their peers, to make an informed judgement. I think there are very few people in a position to do that about the junior teams.

 

[Parkender]

I agree, but I think we also need to acknowledge 2 things.

Firstly you can't turn straw into gold. You can only really criticise Unsworth for not turning people into first teamers if it would be reasonable to believe that another coach would have done so. The jury's out on that I think, it's not as if a load of lads have moved on from our youth system and become Premier League stars elsewhere, so it's possible that he just hasn't had players with the required talent to progress past the multitude of internationals who can't even get on our bench, nevermind the ones who are in the team.

Secondly, turning players into first teamers is, to some extent, out of the junior coach's hands. If Silva had picked Dowell and Baningime last year would that automatically mean Unsworth had done a better job, even if the players were only at the same level as they are now? There'd be no difference at all in the job he was doing, but your logic would mean he'd be doing literally twice as well at his job. That can't be right surely?

I have no idea if he's a great coach or a terrible one really, but nor do most people who are putting the boot in to him on here.

How dare you come on here with your common sense

 

[German_Toffee]

Hey guys,

I have one question concerning Dennis Adeniran. Are their any rumours about his future in the niext season? Will he stay in the U21 team or is he on the way to a CS team on a loan transfer?

Greets from Germany!

 

[blueloon]

. From what I can tell we’re taking on 19 Scholars this year, about 5 more than usual presumably with the transfer ban in mind. These are the ones I believe are new Scholars, the first few are ones I recognise as having played u18s for us or been in a squad.
Jack McIntyre, Goalkeeper;
Tyler Onyango midfield ;
Lewis Dobbin , highly rated England u16/forward;
Lewis Warrington midfield;
Harry Hagan, defender played at youth level for England
, Rafe Garcia highly rated kid we got from Fulham ,

The others :
; Daniel Lowry; Liam Higgins;
Dylan Thompson; Joel Davidson;Rafael Ferreira; Thomas Cannon;

The official site is now showing 12 new Scholars as opposed to the original 19 mentioned so I’ve amended my original post above to show these 12.
The other 7 previously mentioned are shown below, they may be in and just waiting for site update, who knows.
Thomas Kelly;Jaden Timmis; William Harrison;
Cameron Ferguson, Matthew McDonald; Joshua Dugmore; Liam Kennington.

 

[Nymzee]

The official site is now showing 12 new Scholars as opposed to the original 19 mentioned so I’ve amended my original post above to show these 12.
The other 7 previously mentioned are shown below, they may be in and just waiting for site update, who knows.
Thomas Kelly;Jaden Timmis; William Harrison;
Cameron Ferguson, Matthew McDonald; Joshua Dugmore; Liam Kennington.

Did get an email before off Everton announcing their new revamped site so maybe it is updated now.