Everton Youth Teams Thread

Hantakun said:
Pardon if this was already discussed... but do you guys have a clear view on the identity of that young super talented playmaker no.10 whom RM was coyly mentioning in that recent podcast interview? What I've seen online most seem to think this alluded to either Ledson or Dowell, but when reading the player bios on the OS I feel that Liam Walsh sounds like that kind of player the most. Yesterday's post by @catcherintherye seemed to suggest that LW is indeed a highly rated talent at the club.
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I have just heard the podcast, which was very enjoyable. To answer your question I am undecided as to which of those two it could be.

On the one hand Dowell is the obvious choice. He is a natural number 10 picks up pockets of space very well and is able to play one touch football better than those many years his senior. He has a "picture in his head" before the ball arrives so to speak. I have to be honest, I remember watching him as an under 16 and was never that impressed by him, but having seen him over the last 12 months you can see his spacial awareness is very advanced for an under 17 player. He is the natural number 10.

However the way Martinez described the role of the player, namely picking the ball up from deeper and dictating play, not just creating things in and around the box makes me think it may have been Walsh he was referring too. Walsh sits much deeper and sits the tempo very well, has good vision and two good feet. he has the ability to "control the game from deep" in the way Martinez was speaking about. He is also because of his physique a couple of years off contention (whereas Ledson and Dowell I suspect are a bit closer). If I was pushed I would say that he was referring to Walsh.

There's something of the Paul Scholes about Walsh, Scholes towards the end of his career, who could dictate the play from a deep position, excellent technique, two footed and can get his foot in.
 
catcherintherye said:
I have just heard the podcast, which was very enjoyable. To answer your question I am undecided as to which of those two it could be.

On the one hand Dowell is the obvious choice. He is a natural number 10 picks up pockets of space very well and is able to play one touch football better than those many years his senior. He has a "picture in his head" before the ball arrives so to speak. I have to be honest, I remember watching him as an under 16 and was never that impressed by him, but having seen him over the last 12 months you can see his spacial awareness is very advanced for an under 17 player. He is the natural number 10.

However the way Martinez described the role of the player, namely picking the ball up from deeper and dictating play, not just creating things in and around the box makes me think it may have been Walsh he was referring too. Walsh sits much deeper and sits the tempo very well, has good vision and two good feet. he has the ability to "control the game from deep" in the way Martinez was speaking about. He is also because of his physique a couple of years off contention (whereas Ledson and Dowell I suspect are a bit closer). If I was pushed I would say that he was referring to Walsh.

There's something of the Paul Scholes about Walsh, Scholes towards the end of his career, who could dictate the play from a deep position, excellent technique, two footed and can get his foot in.
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Haven't seen much of Walsh but your perspective on Dowell is spot on, particularly how he doesn't have to think what to do (a la Barkley) but is already ahead of the game before actually receiving the ball.
 
Kiwi said:
Blackett and McNair have been preferred over him, so not hugely surprised
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True, although if he had the leadership skills to be made captain they might have tried him for a further year - often mentality is as important in suceeding as raw talent.

Bit of a shame if United knew they weren't going to offer him an extension that they didn't try a loan deal or other help in finding him permanent employment further down the food chain rather than just releasing him.
 

.....had an interesting chat with somebody at FF about the youngsters coming through, a good bunch on and off the pitch. We spoke about individuals who are training and playing practice matches with the first team. He told me that a ball was played up to Lukaku and Kenny nipped in and got it off him but on the next two occasions Lukaku brushed the youngster aside and he ended up on his backside.

It's an interesting insight especially for those of us pushing kids for first team places. I talk about players having class and/or physicality, I talk about competitive or aggressive players. Stones and Galloway are slight but have the class that makes up for any lack of strength. Kenny is competitive, a little bloke with a ton of ability and a big heart but RM will watch Lukaku brush him aside and think he's some way off being ready. Browning on the other hand can probably mix it with Lukaku. He might not have the quality of the others but he'll be seen as less of a risk.
 
Disappointing that Grant isn't getting a starting role for Motherwell.Playing in front of a decent crowd in the play-off finals would have been good experience for him.
 
mrb85 said:
Haven't seen much of Walsh but your perspective on Dowell is spot on, particularly how he doesn't have to think what to do (a la Barkley) but is already ahead of the game before actually receiving the ball.
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Thanks mate. Yes the comparison to Barkley is a very interesting one really. Barkley as a young player (and even now a pro) had an enormous amount in his favour. He was much bigger than players his own age and looked head and shoulders above them (literally). he would power past people and was a bit of a colossus. It was easy to see him playing in the first team. He was put in a variety of positions in the youth team including defence, and excelled.

However, while he had the power, strength and skill what is becoming quite clear is he is not really a natural number 10. He lacks the special awareness and ability to make things happen in condensed spaces.

When I first saw Dowell there was a lot of talk about him. As I have said I was quite unimpressed. He looked one paced, very one footed (unlike most of our academy graduates) and floated on the edge on the game. Gradually I have noticed why he is so highly thought of. At times he makes runs and passes that are just too clever for youth football, he sees the game in a way that is beyond other teenagers. He is a natural number 10. He glides with the ball, and runs with his head up.

The best comparison I can make is Ozil, who while not very fast is able to glide past defenders. He is also adept at one touch play which is a key requirement when playing in the final third. The positions he takes up are very good as well and he finds little pockets of space. I think we will see him introduced under Martinez, who values that sort of player. I am not sure Moyes would have ever got the best out of him and would have seen him as a luxury.
 
Eggs said:
.....had an interesting chat with somebody at FF about the youngsters coming through, a good bunch on and off the pitch. We spoke about individuals who are training and playing practice matches with the first team. He told me that a ball was played up to Lukaku and Kenny nipped in and got it off him but on the next two occasions Lukaku brushed the youngster aside and he ended up on his backside.
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To be far Rom can do that to most players around when in the mood.
 

Eggs said:
.....had an interesting chat with somebody at FF about the youngsters coming through, a good bunch on and off the pitch. We spoke about individuals who are training and playing practice matches with the first team. He told me that a ball was played up to Lukaku and Kenny nipped in and got it off him but on the next two occasions Lukaku brushed the youngster aside and he ended up on his backside.

It's an interesting insight especially for those of us pushing kids for first team places. I talk about players having class and/or physicality, I talk about competitive or aggressive players. Stones and Galloway are slight but have the class that makes up for any lack of strength. Kenny is competitive, a little bloke with a ton of ability and a big heart but RM will watch Lukaku brush him aside and think he's some way off being ready. Browning on the other hand can probably mix it with Lukaku. He might not have the quality of the others but he'll be seen as less of a risk.
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I think what's really interesting about this is 1) the young players are playing with the first team and 2) Martinez seems to have a plan with how to develop them between 16-21.

It has been very promising that Martinez has been happy to incorporate larger numbers of teenagers to be around the first team squad. It doesn't happen enough and wasn't happening under Moyes towards the end.
Martinez seems to want to expose the young players briefly, get them out on loan before introducing them at around about 21-22 to fight for a place. The process worked well with Garbutt and Browning. I hope we can see the same results with Kenny, Dowell, Walsh et al.

As for Kenny I think he is also quite classy when I've seen him. he seems comfortable on the ball, but he still needs time to fill out for Centre back. Your assessment of Browning is spot on. He reminds me a lot of Anichebe. Anichebe was never really a standout player in the youth teams. Technically he was quite poor. But he had a fantastic physique and also a manager who valued that in his position.

Likewise Browning was not a standout in youth football. But Martinez has always liked him. He wants his defenders to be quite mobile and is more forgiving of the occasional mistake they may make. He is a brilliant athlete.
 
catcherintherye said:
I have just heard the podcast, which was very enjoyable. To answer your question I am undecided as to which of those two it could be.

On the one hand Dowell is the obvious choice. He is a natural number 10 picks up pockets of space very well and is able to play one touch football better than those many years his senior. He has a "picture in his head" before the ball arrives so to speak. I have to be honest, I remember watching him as an under 16 and was never that impressed by him, but having seen him over the last 12 months you can see his spacial awareness is very advanced for an under 17 player. He is the natural number 10.

However the way Martinez described the role of the player, namely picking the ball up from deeper and dictating play, not just creating things in and around the box makes me think it may have been Walsh he was referring too. Walsh sits much deeper and sits the tempo very well, has good vision and two good feet. he has the ability to "control the game from deep" in the way Martinez was speaking about. He is also because of his physique a couple of years off contention (whereas Ledson and Dowell I suspect are a bit closer). If I was pushed I would say that he was referring to Walsh.

There's something of the Paul Scholes about Walsh, Scholes towards the end of his career, who could dictate the play from a deep position, excellent technique, two footed and can get his foot in.
Click to expand...

Long shot, but will we ever see an Everton side with Barkley, Walsh, Dowell, and Ledson playing together?
 

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