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Everton Youth Teams Thread

....I suppose the physicality aspect might be less obvious when many of these youngsters are recruited aged 8.

Of course, but they would often look at parents to get an idea.

We go heavy at the age group mentioned but that continues to 11/12. You can get an idea, I also think it informs the future decision making- who gets pushed through year groups, who gets let go etc. I mean you can never be certain, but you can load the chips on your side.

It was something the club looked to do, and there was a change in outlook over recent years, around the Martinez time. I don't think it was all down to him either, a lot was that we had more money so could wait a little longer with younger players and look more at their technical ability. I think we have gone too far the other way to be honest mate.

I always think when watching an 18's, 16's, 23's game or whatever you are always looking for the player who's outstanding, as opposed to solid. Unless you are of a certain size, or speed, it is very difficult to break through into the mens game at 18-20 at the very top level.
 
Of course, but they would often look at parents to get an idea.

We go heavy at the age group mentioned but that continues to 11/12. You can get an idea, I also think it informs the future decision making- who gets pushed through year groups, who gets let go etc. I mean you can never be certain, but you can load the chips on your side.

It was something the club looked to do, and there was a change in outlook over recent years, around the Martinez time. I don't think it was all down to him either, a lot was that we had more money so could wait a little longer with younger players and look more at their technical ability. I think we have gone too far the other way to be honest mate.

I always think when watching an 18's, 16's, 23's game or whatever you are always looking for the player who's outstanding, as opposed to solid. Unless you are of a certain size, or speed, it is very difficult to break through into the mens game at 18-20 at the very top level.

...yep, I fully understand where you’re coming from & it’s a really good point.

Physicality is certainly a factor in the modern game but then you look at Barcelona with Iniesta and Messi and even the likes of Foden at City. Osman is one of our most successful Academy recruits of recent times and is 10st soaking wet.

I suppose a team is made up of different types. Perhaps it’s about quality & athleticism. It’s perfect to have both in abundance but rare. The balance of the two might flip for particular positions, more specifically defenders might need more physicality than quality.
 
...yep, I fully understand where you’re coming from & it’s a really good point.

Physicality is certainly a factor in the modern game but then you look at Barcelona with Iniesta and Messi and even the likes of Foden at City. Osman is one of our most successful Academy recruits of recent times and is 10st soaking wet.

I suppose a team is made up of different types. Perhaps it’s about quality & athleticism. It’s perfect to have both in abundance but rare. The balance of the two might flip for particular positions, more specifically defenders might need more physicality than quality.

Yes of course. I suppose I would say in any org you can have a broad strategy and also be flexible enough to acknowledge exceptions. I think from the mid 90's to probably the start of the last decade we had a better balance, where the focus was more about bigger, more physical players. You are right though, Osman is as exception, so too is Davies really. He's not massively big or quick.

In a lot of ways Davies is even more remarkable than Osman. Osman came into a poor team, who had sold some key players the summer before and was very much right place right time. Davies has emerged in an era where we have spent heavily, on lots of players in his position, but he has clocked up over 100 appearances.

I think Barca are different, as it's a different league, which is ore possession based and they have a very distinct outlook. Foden is a good example, but is probably that exception who was world class in his age group, and also comes into a team that appreciates that ability. Our players are more very good so it becomes harder to break through without either being big or fast.

I look at say Calvert Lewin, and he always had fantastic physcality. To a degree Holgate did too for the 23's and Godfrey has it in spades. I would be really focussed on signing lads and promoting players internally who had those skillsets.
 
I'm hoping that the new academy recruitment boss Chris Perkins (?) Can help with changing our tact. Whenever I have watched our 23s or 18s it's striking just how similar all our players are. They're all in the same mold. Like when the club started pushing out Joe Williams as the next academy graduate to make it I didn't really understand it because he was yet another very well rounded player without any standout attributes. But Derby have been competing in the U19 CL in recent years and have brought through Knight, Sibley, Bird, Bogle and Gordon. Ok they're not exactly our standard atm but that's a very strong group of players to bring through at academy level and its also a competition well above where their first team is at.
 
I'm hoping that the new academy recruitment boss Chris Perkins (?) Can help with changing our tact. Whenever I have watched our 23s or 18s it's striking just how similar all our players are. They're all in the same mold. Like when the club started pushing out Joe Williams as the next academy graduate to make it I didn't really understand it because he was yet another very well rounded player without any standout attributes. But Derby have been competing in the U19 CL in recent years and have brought through Knight, Sibley, Bird, Bogle and Gordon. Ok they're not exactly our standard atm but that's a very strong group of players to bring through at academy level and its also a competition well above where their first team is at.

....watched Joe Williams aged 16 up against Anderson who was returning from injury for Manchester United and he was fantastic, not particularly from a quality perspective but he was such an effective competitor. He was a stand out for me but I know others didn’t particularly note him.

Williams was a little too brave/daft for his own good and suffered lengthy injuries. In the end he couldn’t make the leap into PL, but I could understand managers elsewhere keen on acquiring him.

i doubt the club set out to identify a certain type for a certain position, we’ve had our share of Academy first teamers in attack, midfield and defence in recent times. Often it’s cyclical and you just get a good crop (Osman, Hibbert, Jeffers, Dunne, Ball contingent) or a single diamond (Rooney).

Invariably we are initially fishing in the local area so the talent is limited & you don’t see kids playing footy on Merseyside like you used to. Buying young talent seems to be more of the way to go.
 

....watched Joe Williams aged 16 up against Anderson who was returning from injury for Manchester United and he was fantastic, not particularly from a quality perspective but he was such an effective competitor. He was a stand out for me but I know others didn’t particularly note him.

Williams was a little too brave/daft for his own good and suffered lengthy injuries. In the end he couldn’t make the leap into PL, but I could understand managers elsewhere keen on acquiring him.

i doubt the club set out to identify a certain type for a certain position, we’ve had our share of Academy first teamers in attack, midfield and defence in recent times. Often it’s cyclical and you just get a good crop (Osman, Hibbert, Jeffers, Dunne, Ball contingent) or a single diamond (Rooney).

Invariably we are initially fishing in the local area so the talent is limited & you don’t see kids playing footy on Merseyside like you used to. Buying young talent seems to be more of the way to go.
Sorry if I wasn't specific enough with regards to Joe Williams. The time I am referring to is the 17/18 kit launch with Davies, Baines and Barkley they were really pushing him as the breakthrough prospect when he was already 20. It was at that point I didn't really see him in the same bracket as the other 3 the club were pushing him with. I can't say I saw him at 16.

Whilst I will say I don't believe the club has been specifically looking for a certain type of player there has been a lack of players with absolute pace coming through. Don't know whether that's a good or bad thing or makes no difference but they only real speedster I can think of is John. That Garcia looked quick in the cup as well but looking at our past winning U23 teams I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that you would associate with it bar Robinson. But I could be wrong on that
 
Sorry if I wasn't specific enough with regards to Joe Williams. The time I am referring to is the 17/18 kit launch with Davies, Baines and Barkley they were really pushing him as the breakthrough prospect when he was already 20. It was at that point I didn't really see him in the same bracket as the other 3 the club were pushing him with. I can't say I saw him at 16.

Whilst I will say I don't believe the club has been specifically looking for a certain type of player there has been a lack of players with absolute pace coming through. Don't know whether that's a good or bad thing or makes no difference but they only real speedster I can think of is John. That Garcia looked quick in the cup as well but looking at our past winning U23 teams I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that you would associate with it bar Robinson. But I could be wrong on that

....fair point, although Small looks rapid & Gordon is no slouch (I don’t think he’s realising his potential).
 
....fair point, although Small looks rapid & Gordon is no slouch (I don’t think he’s realising his potential).
Yeah them 2 are quick which probably helps then standout more as well. Gordon is a bit of a weird one for me as he clearly has potential to be a premier league winger but his development has stalled quite a bit.

Think a bit of it is a few near misses, he's hit the post or bar a few times, if they fall the other side then it's a different story but his game time only really gets fixed with Europa league football allowing him minutes. Think it was a bit of a case of Gordon being the only real player with 'first team potential' from the 99-2001 groups in the academy that put a lot of pressure on him as well

Personally think Championship loans should be avoided like the plague in general when it comes to us developing players and his is another example of stagnation on loan but there's obviously other factors.
 
....watched Joe Williams aged 16 up against Anderson who was returning from injury for Manchester United and he was fantastic, not particularly from a quality perspective but he was such an effective competitor. He was a stand out for me but I know others didn’t particularly note him.

Williams was a little too brave/daft for his own good and suffered lengthy injuries. In the end he couldn’t make the leap into PL, but I could understand managers elsewhere keen on acquiring him.

i doubt the club set out to identify a certain type for a certain position, we’ve had our share of Academy first teamers in attack, midfield and defence in recent times. Often it’s cyclical and you just get a good crop (Osman, Hibbert, Jeffers, Dunne, Ball contingent) or a single diamond (Rooney).

Invariably we are initially fishing in the local area so the talent is limited & you don’t see kids playing footy on Merseyside like you used to. Buying young talent seems to be more of the way to go.


It's really difficult on a number of levels. I watched a fair bit of Joe's age group and there really wasn't a lot to choose between him, Davies, Ledson and Walshwho all played centrally in midfield. If you put a gun to my head I'd have said Ledson was the most likely to get early starts, but Walsh might be the best player (but take longer) but you could have made a case for any of them. But Davies was the one to make the step up and has kicked on very well.

I don't know if it's a mixture of good fortune, chance or ultimately how they develop when thrown into the mens game (or in all likelihood a combination of all of them).

Often Davies and Williams would play together for the 23's, and in honesty you wouldn't have said one was miles ahead of the other. Davies had a bit of a better build a big younger-where Joe was quite wiry and has taken him a it of time to fill out (Callum Connolly is another like that and may have a career at CB where I've seen him playing).

I think they all probably struggled a bit for theclub spending masses of money and having lots of different managers, and the younger lads are an easy loss. The one thing Brands has done is cut the squad, so at least there is a chance for younger players to catch the eye.

My own theory is a combination of 2 things probably made a big difference. The league is now the best in the world, and the most risk averse in the world as well. Very few break through before 21. In the 90's when we had a big cros through, the Italian league was very much the best, we were secondary. You sort of see leagues like Spain or Germany bringing lads through, but it's easier. The standards a re a bit lower.

I'd also say, we are in a much better situation. For a lot of years young lads got games at Everton as there were few other options. I remember when we sold Gary Speed, and Ball had to play because there wasn't realy anyone else (think Hincliffe went around that time too). At times we would have teams with him in, as well as Cadamateri & Dunne at the back, sometimes even Branch and/or Jeffers would play too when Ferguson was injured.

I think had we been in that mess you might have seen lads like Joe Williams get an opportunity and we would have seen if he could have coped, which you only really know if you get given the chance.

The club seem to produce midfield players very well. Over and above the 4 I've noted to you you have Baningime too, Onynago now with Isaac Price. We hope it's different for the next crop, but I do think it's really fine margins as to whether these lads make it. At that level it's a bit of a knife edge. For them they are all going to have really good careers and never have to work again, but for the club, I wonder how we transition players who are nearly good enough into ones who are? Maybe thats the paradox that can't be solved though and we can't get too greedy.
 

The Winners of the 4th Round FA Youth Cup Game between Man City u18s and Everton u18s will be away to Chelsea u18s or AFC Fylde - while the Q/F DRAW was also made Today


The fifth round draw

All fifth round ties must be played by Saturday 17 April 2021

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United v Watford
2 Aston Villa v Burton Albion
3 West Ham United v Arsenal
4 Peterborough United or Sheffield United v Bristol City
5 Leicester City v Manchester United or Liverpool
6 Chelsea or AFC Fylde v Manchester City or Everton
7 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur v West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City
8 Swansea City or Middlesbrough v Ipswich Town or Swindon Town

-------

The quarter-final draw

Quarter-final ties must be played by Saturday 1 May 2021.

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United or Watford v Aston Villa or Burton Albion
2 Leicester City or Manchester United or Liverpool v West Ham United or Arsenal
3 Swansea City or Middlesbrough or Ipswich Town or Swindon Town v Peterborough United or Sheffield United or Bristol City
4 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur or West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City v Chelsea or AFC Fylde or Manchester City or Everton
 
The Winners of the 4th Round FA Youth Cup Game between Man City u18s and Everton u18s will be away to Chelsea u18s or AFC Fylde - while the Q/F DRAW was also made Today


The fifth round draw

All fifth round ties must be played by Saturday 17 April 2021

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United v Watford
2 Aston Villa v Burton Albion
3 West Ham United v Arsenal
4 Peterborough United or Sheffield United v Bristol City
5 Leicester City v Manchester United or Liverpool
6 Chelsea or AFC Fylde v Manchester City or Everton
7 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur v West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City
8 Swansea City or Middlesbrough v Ipswich Town or Swindon Town

-------

The quarter-final draw

Quarter-final ties must be played by Saturday 1 May 2021.

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United or Watford v Aston Villa or Burton Albion
2 Leicester City or Manchester United or Liverpool v West Ham United or Arsenal
3 Swansea City or Middlesbrough or Ipswich Town or Swindon Town v Peterborough United or Sheffield United or Bristol City
4 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur or West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City v Chelsea or AFC Fylde or Manchester City or Everton
Not much easier if we beat city
 
The Winners of the 4th Round FA Youth Cup Game between Man City u18s and Everton u18s will be away to Chelsea u18s or AFC Fylde - while the Q/F DRAW was also made Today


The fifth round draw

All fifth round ties must be played by Saturday 17 April 2021

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United v Watford
2 Aston Villa v Burton Albion
3 West Ham United v Arsenal
4 Peterborough United or Sheffield United v Bristol City
5 Leicester City v Manchester United or Liverpool
6 Chelsea or AFC Fylde v Manchester City or Everton
7 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur v West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City
8 Swansea City or Middlesbrough v Ipswich Town or Swindon Town

-------

The quarter-final draw

Quarter-final ties must be played by Saturday 1 May 2021.

1
Newcastle United or Leeds United or Watford v Aston Villa or Burton Albion
2 Leicester City or Manchester United or Liverpool v West Ham United or Arsenal
3 Swansea City or Middlesbrough or Ipswich Town or Swindon Town v Peterborough United or Sheffield United or Bristol City
4 AFC Wimbledon or Tottenham Hotspur or West Bromwich Albion or Cardiff City v Chelsea or AFC Fylde or Manchester City or Everton

Just like the seniors everything the hard way.
 
My view on youngsters for what it's worth. The best ones have usually broken into the u18s when they are still u16s and when they are first year scholars they tend to be first choice I the u18s and also playing games with the u23s. Where we seem to fail is what to do with them when they aren't quite ready for our first team but have out grown the u23s. Some of the loans we have set up have in my opinion ended the players chances. However them staying in the u23s can be just as bad. Maybe if they keep the 9 subs rule we could put a couple of youngsters on the bench to give them a taste of it.
 

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