Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Raino85]

I read somewhere the other day that Dier was always going back as decreed by Sporting Lisbon. Our failure was probably not keeping a better watch on his future availability, but heh you can't win them all.
In addition to winning in 2014, we were second 2015. , a whisker from winning it, and currently top of our Section so it looks promising for the future. But this thread is a great reminder of how big the gap is between excelling at 18 and playing at PL level.

john Lundstrum is a great example of that. Captained every Everton and England team up to under 20s, was one of the best at his age in the country in his position but just hasn't been able to push on after finding a brick wall, loss of confidence or just plain not good enough!

By the way...Mods, if this is turning into an Everton Yuoth team thread feel free to merge the post

 

[The Cowboy]

I read somewhere the other day that Dier was always going back as decreed by Sporting Lisbon. Our failure was probably not keeping a better watch on his future availability, but heh you can't win them all.
In addition to winning in 2014, we were second 2015. , a whisker from winning it, and currently top of our Section so it looks promising for the future. But this thread is a great reminder of how big the gap is between excelling at 18 and playing at PL level.

I guess what's interesting is that up until U20, they're just playing against teams of their peers. Reach U21 and you get that tricky mix of players going on loan, other players staying and fighting against the regular squad fringe players.

A good team might elevate certain players at youth level, but they may get found out when they start mixing it in the big leagues.

 

[Ashtonian]

Great read, mad to see so many kids fall by the way side but considering the manager we had in charge, is it really a surprise we did not have a few more develop?

I'd imagine 2014 squad will at least have better outcomes in their career, either at goodison or away from it

 

[Bruce Wayne]

john Lundstrum is a great example of that. Captained every Everton and England team up to under 20s, was one of the best at his age in the country in his position but just hasn't been able to push on after finding a brick wall, loss of confidence or just plain not good enough!

By the way...Mods, if this is turning into an Everton Yuoth team thread feel free to merge the post

Yes, good idea, and thanks for the run down - very interesting and a good insight into just how hard it is to go from decent young player to decent senior player.

 

[catcherintherye]

I know it sounds odd but 3 at first team level is really not a bad return, in fact it is a very good return. If we got 1 per season (every 2 years youth teams) that would be good.

When you consider that a number of lads have made decent careers for themselves at Championship level (Forshaw & Bidwell, Long, Mcaleny) alongside Dier, Barkley who have England call ups and Browning & Garbutt who have made first team appearances it was a very profitable group for us. It shows really potentially 6 (with a possible other two) of them had the potential to make the grade at Everton (I generally count championship players as having the potential to have played for Everton).

It sounds harsh seeing lads playing for sides like Oxford like Lundstram does or Long or Mcaleny and treat them as failures. All 3 of those lads will be on more money than 99% of the population. If they keep their heads screwed and make a career of 15 years out of it, even at lower league level they stand a chance of setting themselves up to never have to work again. It's not the glory of the premier league but they give themselves a great start for the future.

My recollections of that youth team were that it was never that strong despite winning the league. I never got the same buzz from it that I have done form our recent under 18's. When I watched them I always thought Forrester looked very promising and always felt he had a sniff of a chance.

It was the time when the likes of Hallam Hope were really starting to get found out. He just didn't kick on as people hoped he would as an under 16 and he was often used on the wing not in his preferred striking position. There was also a lot of talk about Waring who was a really tall lad and I was quite surprised when he was let go. There was always a lot of chat about him.

As for players like Bidwell he was always hard working and I am surprised he's done so well really. I don't think he has any more ability than a lad like James Yates currently has.

It's strange really the origin of the article I think is meant to show up how they haven't gone on to achieve what we thought they might. However I have to say the majority of the players have exceeded my expectations.

You knew Barkley was class and would play for Everton and England. I didn't see Dier making it to the England squad. I didn't see Garbutt becoming a potential premier league left, nor the same with Browning. I also didn't think Forshaw would be sold for 5 million.

 

[catcherintherye]

I read somewhere the other day that Dier was always going back as decreed by Sporting Lisbon. Our failure was probably not keeping a better watch on his future availability, but heh you can't win them all.
In addition to winning in 2014, we were second 2015. , a whisker from winning it, and currently top of our Section so it looks promising for the future. But this thread is a great reminder of how big the gap is between excelling at 18 and playing at PL level.

They were never going to sell us Dier to be honest. I know Moyes gets bashed over the head for this with some revisionism but Sporting had no intention of selling him to us. It was a loan of convenience. We got a terrific centre half who the other lads could learn from and Sporting got their player trained well.

I was told even at age 18 they wouldn't have taken a 10 million for him which was a lot of money back then. A shame really as he looks a great prospect now.

 

[boris]

Interesting to see the one's who fared best are the one's that stayed and developed with Everton. Should post this in the current academy and let them see what happens if you jump ship too early dreaming of first team football when you aren't established at your own team first.

It's not really as simple as that.

We would have done everything we could to make sure the others never jumped ship whilst the others would have been told they didn't really have a future here.

I am sure if they had been offered good deals, in fact any deals at all to stay then I am sure they would have whilst if Ross Barkley was told he was not required, he wouldn't be here now.

 

[Timak]

Great read, mad to see so many kids fall by the way side but considering the manager we had in charge, is it really a surprise we did not have a few more develop?

I'd imagine 2014 squad will at least have better outcomes in their career, either at goodison or away from it

Are you saying it is David Moyes fault that only half of our U18 squad are still making a good living from football?

Because half a squad making a living is a very good ratio.

Look at the Fulham team that were winners the year after or the Arsenal team that won the year before. Hardly any players still active at the top few levels.

 

[Raino85]

It's not really as simple as that.

We would have done everything we could to make sure the others never jumped ship whilst the others would have been told they didn't really have a future here.

I am sure if they had been offered good deals, in fact any deals at all to stay then I am sure they would have whilst if Ross Barkley was told he was not required, he wouldn't be here now.

Didn't Ross get offered a professional contract the day after he broke his leg and a holiday to Portugal?

 

[Raino85]

We could go back to the team the year before also that had Mustafi, Duffy, Forshaw & Akpan playing (I think Forshaw and Akpan were eligible but were playing u21 games at the time) with 3 of them playing championship level week in week out and Mustafi playing champions league

 

[Raino85]

I know it sounds odd but 3 at first team level is really not a bad return, in fact it is a very good return. If we got 1 per season (every 2 years youth teams) that would be good.

When you consider that a number of lads have made decent careers for themselves at Championship level (Forshaw & Bidwell, Long, Mcaleny) alongside Dier, Barkley who have England call ups and Browning & Garbutt who have made first team appearances it was a very profitable group for us. It shows really potentially 6 (with a possible other two) of them had the potential to make the grade at Everton (I generally count championship players as having the potential to have played for Everton).

It sounds harsh seeing lads playing for sides like Oxford like Lundstram does or Long or Mcaleny and treat them as failures. All 3 of those lads will be on more money than 99% of the population. If they keep their heads screwed and make a career of 15 years out of it, even at lower league level they stand a chance of setting themselves up to never have to work again. It's not the glory of the premier league but they give themselves a great start for the future.

My recollections of that youth team were that it was never that strong despite winning the league. I never got the same buzz from it that I have done form our recent under 18's. When I watched them I always thought Forrester looked very promising and always felt he had a sniff of a chance.

It was the time when the likes of Hallam Hope were really starting to get found out. He just didn't kick on as people hoped he would as an under 16 and he was often used on the wing not in his preferred striking position. There was also a lot of talk about Waring who was a really tall lad and I was quite surprised when he was let go. There was always a lot of chat about him.

As for players like Bidwell he was always hard working and I am surprised he's done so well really. I don't think he has any more ability than a lad like James Yates currently has.

It's strange really the origin of the article I think is meant to show up how they haven't gone on to achieve what we thought they might. However I have to say the majority of the players have exceeded my expectations.

You knew Barkley was class and would play for Everton and England. I didn't see Dier making it to the England squad. I didn't see Garbutt becoming a potential premier league left, nor the same with Browning. I also didn't think Forshaw would be sold for 5 million.

Quite the opposite! It was more a "I wonder were the rest of the players are now" thing more than anything. To get Barkley, Browning & Garbutt out of one youth team is a great effort.
Add to that the rest who have made it as professionals whether it premier league or league 2 is an impressive amount.
A few more may slip into non league and league of wales along the way but a lot of these lads will make a living, a good one at that playing football

 

[boris]

We could go back to the team the year before also that had Mustafi, Duffy, Forshaw & Akpan playing (I think Forshaw and Akpan were eligible but were playing u21 games at the time) with 3 of them playing championship level week in week out and Mustafi playing champions league

I think Mustafi's world cup winners medal deserves a mention at this point............FFS Moyes.

 

[Ashtonian]

Are you saying it is David Moyes fault that only half of our U18 squad are still making a good living from football?

Because half a squad making a living is a very good ratio.

Look at the Fulham team that were winners the year after or the Arsenal team that won the year before. Hardly any players still active at the top few levels.

Yes i am. Kevin sheedy said it himself there was nothing there for young players, he would turn up for training one day and find out one of the lads was gone the next.

I am not talking about a team of barkleys or rooneys here, some of the young lads could turn up to league 2 team, but its a massive step up from some of the results mentioned here. Before under moyes we had absolutely nothing for the young players, so bar the coaching there was no infrastructure to develop them further, compared to now where more of the youth teams are getting the support and guidance to better their careers post academy

 

[catcherintherye]

Quite the opposite! It was more a "I wonder were the rest of the players are now" thing more than anything. To get Barkley, Browning & Garbutt out of one youth team is a great effort.
Add to that the rest who have made it as professionals whether it premier league or league 2 is an impressive amount.
A few more may slip into non league and league of wales along the way but a lot of these lads will make a living, a good one at that playing football

Ah yes. Sorry I wasn't trying to attack you, but lots probably look at it and think it's surprising how few are playing at the top level. They have done very well for themselves and I'm surprised at how well a few have done.

 

[Raino85]

Ah yes. Sorry I wasn't trying to attack you, but lots probably look at it and think it's surprising how few are playing at the top level. They have done very well for themselves and I'm surprised at how well a few have done.

Ability wise the groups have never been the best in the country I don't think (hence less recognition with England youth teams). But if football was all about ability then it wouldn't be as entertaining.
I think our young players tend to have a far better work ethic than other academy players (Browning asking to train with the u21s before the 1st team are due back a good example).
Perhaps that is a reason some people are surprised when talented players get ditched or move on? They have all the ability but not the work rate.
George Green?, Baxter?,