Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Zatara]

…..they find their level and if that’s in and around the first team, that’s where he should be. Dyche and the coaches will know his ability, attitude and application levels.

I have no idea if this lad is a very special talent but if he is, he should be carefully managed but not held back.

He’s barely played any football. At least give him a full U23’s year.

….pointless training/playing in an uncompetitive comfort zone that doesn’t test him if they think he’s lots better than that.

Interesting we’re having this discussion. I know he’s been involved pre-season but is there a view that he is a very special talent?

Pointless compared to what, being 5th choice CM for the first team and being on a bench all season at 17? Sure it is…

….i have no idea how good this lad is, but he could play U23 games and be involved with the first team. The level he plays at will depend on him. Being involved with the squad and travelling to away games is all part of the process. Foden was carefully managed but wasn’t held back at City, he was involved in the first team at 16/17.

As I say, this lad will find his level.

I said he should play U23's, you said it's pointless, now you're saying he could play U23 games... are you feeling indecisive this morning.

….ffs, Nymz, I’m just saying it’s pointless leaving him with the U23s for a season if his level is better.

You said give him a ‘full U23 year’, I’m saying don’t hold him back.

There hasn't been too much talk about him, not the sort of hype that some players just always seem to have about them however he started with the 18s team as soon as he turned 16 and started with the 21s as soon as he turned 17. He's definitely being fast tracked so must be rated within the academy structure.

He was comfortably the best of last years batch of scholars.

It’s a similar track to Isaac Price / Charlie Whitaker in their day , but as you say Armstrong was the standout in his year . It was his first year of full time training, that’s a big factor , sometimes they stall at the end of it , he seems to have thrived in pre season. It’s been rare in recent years for one of our youth products to get so many pre season minutes. Whatever our views were last season they’ve been eclipsed by his first team minutes, and everybody else has seen that and has a view on him now, so I think he’s flown the Academy nest. He needs a “ Handle me with Care” sign on his back and trust that we get it right .

I understand the logic of your post Eggs but just once in a while a really special talent emerges, I haven’t seen this lad so I can’t really comment but going by the time he is getting with the first team, even in friendly games, I am looking forward to seeing this kid, hopefully on Saturday v Roma, then a lot of us can form an opinion about him until then I/we can only wish him all the best for his future with us and at the same time don’t put any pressure on the lad!

I do get your point, and caution is important, but I'm really not sure that U21s football adds much for players after a certain period of time

I saw him in a youth cup game and thought he was the standout. Similar to Bates, but taller. I worried about lack of speed and a certain wow factor.

But sometimes players move up a notch, and are still able to play their natural game against men. Early indications seem to suggest that.

I always keep it very simple. As a young player, your job is just to stay in the team pre season. I remember as a kid when semi pro team we would help the first team out, and play with them a bit in pre season, and then one by one we would be dropped out.

Your goal was just to be kept in and around that team. If you were doing that, you had a chance.

The fact he's still involved, a bit like Dobbin was last season is a positive.

He takes it on the half turn well, and plays forward.

It seems to me that Armstrong will get the best of both (all 3) worlds. He should get significant time training with the first team, hopefully getting onto the bench and maybe onto the pitch for early round cup games or late on in games if (please lord) we're ever actually winning them.

He should be playing all 3 EFL trophy games with the 21s and a few 21s league games just to keep him ticking over.

He's also still young enough to play in the youth cup and hopefully excel in that against his own age group.

Potential for a very good season with lots of different experiences.

It appears as though (to reference Nymzee) my "obsession" has brought some discussion.

What do we know?

We know hes training with and playing for the first team in pre-season, at a very young age.

We know as Catcher says, "He takes it on the half turn well, and plays forward." Which is what Dyche is referencing with Iroegbunam.

We know that (im referencing others here) hes a deep lying midfielder (?) and we dont have one of those in the squad.

The likes of Gilmour (Chelsea) and Bajcetic (RS) started games at a young age in the same position.

Nymzee is half right that you dont want to put pressure on him to soon, but Eggs is also half right that you need to let him fly as high as he can (issue would be too much to soon and overplaying him).

I agree with Oglop, use him in the u21s, while also training with the first team and see how he gets on.

Most important thing is for him to develop, improve and enjoy himself.

 

[davep]

…..going on loan doesn’t guarantee regular game time, points are at stake and Managers jobs are at stake.

Well that goes without saying. But if they are good enough to be bit part players for us they should be good enough to get regular games for a lower level side, and if they are not then there is no way they were going to do so for us. Either way the experience will benefit them.

 

[davep]

It can work both ways you don't always get games on loan and just getting games on loan doesn't guarantee that you're going to get better because of it.

No, but much more likely to improve that way than sitting on the bench playing the odd 5 minutes here and there.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

No, but much more likely to improve that way than sitting on the bench playing the odd 5 minutes here and there.

Getting coached by better coaches, training with better players, being around the squad breeds good habits. Not as clear cut as playing is better I don think

 

[davep]

Getting coached by better coaches, training with better players, being around the squad breeds good habits. Not as clear cut as playing is better I don think

Yeah, obviously having better coaching etc is important, but there comes a time when the best/only way they're going to improve is by actually playing. You can't coach or train match experience.

 

[oglop44]

PL2 legend.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Yeah, obviously having better coaching etc is important, but there comes a time when the best/only way they're going to improve is by actually playing. You can't coach or train match experience.

Theyre getting match experience in the academy though. Cole Palmer had less than 1000 senior mins at age 21 and he's turned out ok

 

[mightymoyes]

PL2 legend.

I've backed them to win league 2, hopefully he helps!

 

[maccavennie]

PL2 legend.

Great move for him

 

[davep]

Theyre getting match experience in the academy though. Cole Palmer had less than 1000 senior mins at age 21 and he's turned out ok

But the "experience" they're getting this is very obviously not the same as they'd get playing proper senior football.

 

[JimmyK]

But the "experience" they're getting this is very obviously not the same as they'd get playing proper senior football.

That isn’t necessarily a bad thing though that’s the point probably the very worst thing you can do to a young player is expose to them a level they’re not ready for. Loans can be good but it’s not as simple as getting lads into senior teams ASAP every time.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

But the "experience" they're getting this is very obviously not the same as they'd get playing proper senior football.

I agree it's obviously not the same. It's arguably much more beneficial at their age.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Harrison Armstrong. 17. Did ok in preseason. Is he likely to stay around the first team squad ?

 

[blueloon]

It’s been interesting reading the various comment and differing views on Harrison Armstrong. I’m very comfortable with what Dyche/ Thelwell have done with his progress this pre season, training with and playing for the first team and getting decent run outs for his age . Importantly Dyche played him in his best position, moving others like Metcalfe out at times to ensure this . I’m probably in the minority in that I actually trust Dyche/ Thelwell to make the right decisions on his future. I can’t recall any 2nd year scholars in recent years going out on loan in August , Liam Walsh went out to Yeovil after Christmas , so I think he’s unlikely to be loaned out this year.

My concerns are more around Paul Tait and the u21s. I saw nothing last season to convince me that Tait is anything other than a solid club coach who can develop our young players beyond being League1/ League 2 standard. Training with the first team is an excellent basis, but Armstrong will need regular 90 minutes and playing in a turgid u21 system doesn’t cut it for me.

 

[catcherintherye]

It’s been interesting reading the various comment and differing views on Harrison Armstrong. I’m very comfortable with what Dyche/ Thelwell have done with his progress this pre season, training with and playing for the first team and getting decent run outs for his age . Importantly Dyche played him in his best position, moving others like Metcalfe out at times to ensure this . I’m probably in the minority in that I actually trust Dyche/ Thelwell to make the right decisions on his future. I can’t recall any 2nd year scholars in recent years going out on loan in August , Liam Walsh went out to Yeovil after Christmas , so I think he’s unlikely to be loaned out this year.

My concerns are more around Paul Tait and the u21s. I saw nothing last season to convince me that Tait is anything other than a solid club coach who can develop our young players beyond being League1/ League 2 standard. Training with the first team is an excellent basis, but Armstrong will need regular 90 minutes and playing in a turgid u21 system doesn’t cut it for me.

Do you think at the moment, we really had the quality to be much above that level?