Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Zatara]

Thanks for that mate.

Galloway looks to have made it now. I hope he can push for a settled place of his own when Baines takes the LB spot. Either in DM or ideally left sided centre back to replace Jags though now we've bought Mori hopefully it doesnt slow his development.

Holgate seems to have overtaken Browning now. Would it be fair to say he is the next Stones/Galloway who could be a fixture in the first 11 whilst Browning is going to be a local lad as backup? Could the same be said of Pennington?

Ledson/Kenny and Henen seem to be on the last cycle now, going out on loan and then being brought into the first team. Are all three likely to come through and get a few minutes by the end of the season do you think?

You mention Dowell on the left potentially, i guess both him and Henen would be going for Kone's spot and even if a new LW was signed they may come through to compete when Kones contract expires. Who is more likely to breakthrough out of the two of them, it seems Henen is ahead as hes off on loan but Dowell is often discussed here as being a future star?

Robinson is a left back i think and came to Singapore,also Connolly plays in the same position doesnt he? If Ovideo leaves in the summer are either of them able to compete with Garbutt in a year or two as backup to Baines?

Others mentioned have been Evans, Walsh and Holland mostly i think. I imagine they will probably go on loan next season and follow the same path as Ledson/Kenny etc?


Just from reading your and @catcherintherye posts (and others) it gives a great insight into who could be the next off the conveyor belt. I remember Ball/Jeffers and Dunne coming through and being very excited and these days as we need local players in the squad and also because we dont have as much money as others its a massive help to see the success of the youth development.

If we could get Ledson/Kenny/Dowell/Henen/Holgate through into the squad by end of the season then we have more depth by next summer when older players such as Hibbert/Osman/Pienaar will be off and also tosh like McGeady and injury prone like Gibson should be offloaded. Meaning, more top quality young players to add to the group which is exciting and saves more money for us to go and buy just one or two players for big money instead of spreading over 5 or 6.

Do you think thats a likely summary?

Hi @Zatara , sorry mate your request scrambled my brain "How do I reply without repeating all the things Ive said before and a scope that could end up pages long?" To a certain extent its impossible to predict the future of our youngsters, at best we make educated guesses,. 16 months ago we we're wondering how the season would fare for the talents of Matt Kennedy, McAleny, Grant, Pennington, Lundstram, Junior , Chris Long all going out on loan ,and the enigma that was George Green. Some of that group of course are still in the mix for us, but you'll get my point .

"Also any others who may join the group" .Now that would be an epistle justifying those!. If we take our "golden 7" of 18/17 year olds who regularly play at u 21 level that we discuss regularly, everybody has their favourites. You could add an "Older 7 " of 19/21 years old playing at u21 or on loan, and even a "Younger 7" of players in the u 18 team who look "interesting". If we get 5 PL starters for us out of 21 that would be phenomenal, so it suggests some talented players wont make it or maybe at a lower level.

"weve signed Holgate of course". I think he's closest to getting on for a PL game, and would like to see him in the squad more often as cover for Coleman....... and maybe Barry. He appears to have the physical attributes to cover RB and DM as a squad player , and thre have been precedents this season of Reece Oxford WHU, Dier at Spurs stepping up from defence into midfield roles and taking their chances.

"enough potential to make positions their own? "The difficulty for youngsters is that when fit we have a team of internationals , so they need to oust an experienced player to make the position their own. Galloway has been excellent, but it took an injury to Baines to allow him a chance, he couldn't have ousted a fully fit Baines. So it may take injuries, loss of form to even allow them a chance let alone make it their own.
I'll take a different approach , and if I work back wards , I would say , looking at yesterday's team and squad as an example, we have three positions which , in my view, could be have potential for a youngster to develop into next - left midfield (Kone ), left DM ( Barry) and cover at RB for Coleman. The problem is I think the best 3 youngsters we have for those positions , Dowell, Ledson, & Kenny still lack enough experience to make a meaningful challenge soon . Holgate as I say is probably the closest. (There are certain positions we have that barring transfers and injury will be locked down hopefully for years so I was trying to figure out which could come available,)

Roberto has been magnificent in bringing on youngsters - Stones to Geri - to Ross - To Rom -= 4th goal is evidence of that. BUt in many ways he is conservative with his youngsters, we've gone from being the PL team with most 16 year old starters to almost a requirement of being "19 and with outside experience" before even getting into the squad. Its an area where I seem to be in a minority but I think he really needs to increase the exposure of youngsters in the squad. Yesterday, the six outfielders on the bench probably had an average age greater than the team on the field! You would expect to have a younger bench - it may be a bad match example as the u21 s play today, so Holgate, Browning may have been held back. Gerri and Ross were always coming off early, but at 4-0 what a lovely chance to say right Barry , have a rest , Holgate get on for the last 10 mins.

Its the only way to find out what the youngsters have - exposure to a higher level. I like Walsh, but I've no idea how good he is compared to other 18 year olds . Is he just a good but average player playing in a good team? Making meaningful comparisons is so difficult, I think i could do so for Connolly, Ledson and Kenny via comparisons with other England age group players who have played in their position, but that still makes it difficult to conclude if they are just good in their age group or have that something extra .

Sorry, it still turned out to be an overlong response and drifted away from your original question.

 

[Zatara]

Was it a case of the Porto players looking top notch and then as we upped our tempo 2nd half they were "put back in their box"?

Did any of their guys stand out at all? As @Eggs mentioned, could be we may take a look at them as we have previous recently with Galloway/Holgate/Foulds/Leandro and the other Argentine who came but was sent home....

Porto players wouldnt be cheap but never know with Martinez if he would go in for one as they likely suit his style.

Went to watch the u21s today, have to say Porto were on a different level first half. We started playing more direct, higher tempo football in the second half and caused tem quite a few problems then, unlucky in the end not to get the draw. That Callum Connolly looked good, and Holgate's style reminds me of Stones, very cool and calm on the ball.

 

[Fearthainn]

Was it a case of the Porto players looking top notch and then as we upped our tempo 2nd half they were "put back in their box"?

Did any of their guys stand out at all? As @Eggs mentioned, could be we may take a look at them as we have previous recently with Galloway/Holgate/Foulds/Leandro and the other Argentine who came but was sent home....

Porto players wouldnt be cheap but never know with Martinez if he would go in for one as they likely suit his style.

They struggled to deal with our fast passing and movement down the flanks, and every other cross we put in resulted in a chance. We just didn't do much of that first half, we were overthinking it too much, and so it was easy for them to control the match as they were technically superior. Unsworth probably realised that a change in approach was needed second half.

Their forwards both looked excellent, Andre Silva and Ismael. Some great understanding between the two of them. Ismael gave our defenders nightmares with his dribbling and movement.

 

[blueloon]

Went to watch the u21s today, ....We started playing more direct, higher tempo football in the second half and caused tem quite a few problems then, unlucky in the end not to get the draw. That Callum Connolly looked good, .....

Thanks for that. The Callum Connolly fan club is quietly growing, out of all our young defenders he's the one who proved to have the best eye for a goal in the past 18 months. And the one with possibly the toughest task with Baines, Galloway, Garbutt, Oviedo ahead of him , maybe Antonee Robinson too if I knew what had happened to him recently. Still in two years time he'll only be 20.
Interesting comments about 2nd half when we brought on more youngsters. We previously beat Spurs 4-1 with a u21 team , but lost to Schalke when we added experienced players. There were reasons for the overage players, but they seem to effect the cohesion and familiarity that the youngsters have after they've played together so much.

 

[blueloon]

You mention Dowell on the left potentially, i guess both him and Henen would be going for Kone's spot and even if a new LW was signed they may come through to compete when Kones contract expires.

I watched highlight of the Fleetwood game on Skyspurts football league show, and it was interesting that Henen played on the right. He did a great turn , was at the byline in the box and drove a shot cum cross across the box with his right foot which resulted in an own goal , down as an assist in my book! Second half he latched onto a through pass on the right of the box and went on to drive a right footed cross shot into the far corner of the net. Only short cameos of him but impressive , and all from the right.

 

[Zatara]

Thats interesting. How do he and Dowell compare in terms of readiness to break through this season? Even just for a few minutes off the bench so next season they are pushing on...?

Of the others by next summer you think Ledson/Kenny/Holgate are the best placed?

I watched highlight of the Fleetwood game on Skyspurts football league show, and it was interesting that Henen played on the right. He did a great turn , was at the byline in the box and drove a shot cum cross across the box with his right foot which resulted in an own goal , down as an assist in my book! Second half he latched onto a through pass on the right of the box and went on to drive a right footed cross shot into the far corner of the net. Only short cameos of him but impressive , and all from the right.

 

[Zatara]

Clearly we need backup / competition for Lukaku and looking at Kone on the left basically a superior newer version.

It would be ideal if we used these games to then go in for other top sides leading players at this level.

They struggled to deal with our fast passing and movement down the flanks, and every other cross we put in resulted in a chance. We just didn't do much of that first half, we were overthinking it too much, and so it was easy for them to control the match as they were technically superior. Unsworth probably realised that a change in approach was needed second half.

Their forwards both looked excellent, Andre Silva and Ismael. Some great understanding between the two of them. Ismael gave our defenders nightmares with his dribbling and movement.

 

[Zatara]

I think Oviedo will be gone at the end of his contract in the summer.

How does connolly look compared to Garbutt? Thats going to be his major test, getting past him...

Thanks for that. The Callum Connolly fan club is quietly growing, out of all our young defenders he's the one who proved to have the best eye for a goal in the past 18 months. And the one with possibly the toughest task with Baines, Galloway, Garbutt, Oviedo ahead of him , maybe Antonee Robinson too if I knew what had happened to him recently. Still in two years time he'll only be 20.
Interesting comments about 2nd half when we brought on more youngsters. We previously beat Spurs 4-1 with a u21 team , but lost to Schalke when we added experienced players. There were reasons for the overage players, but they seem to effect the cohesion and familiarity that the youngsters have after they've played together so much.

 

[mrb85]

I went to the game today and thought our best player was our no. 4. Looked a real prospect, very Peter Reid in his control of the ball and his use of it. Wasn't until after the game I found out it was Besic. He must have grown his hair recently which is why I didn't recognise him.

 

[Nymzee]

To be fair to the game yesterday the Porto academy is on another level to most of Europe so it's not surprising to see they tortured us first half but nice to know we were on top in the second despite having an unsettled team with a mixture of ages/fitness levels. Andre Silva is one of the stars of their academy and youth international football so would be nice if we used it as a mini scouting event as Porto have a history of selling if the price is right.

I think many people confused over Ledson's loan need to take a look at the bigger picture here: is it better to send an 18-year old boy out to a lower, more physically demanding league where he'll start games and have a platform to express his talent, or send him to a Championship team where he's not going to get as many minutes as well as be fighting the ego of some international players? Personally I think a few games at a Fulham/Rotherham etc. is nowhere near as good as 10-15 at Cambridge. If he comes on in the Premier League and messes up his confidence will just disappear and hinder his progress.

I like how our youth teams considers a loan "plan".

 

[Jamo Martinez]

we've gone from being the PL team with most 16 year old starters to almost a requirement of being "19

It's a nice record but How many of those that had starts as 16 year olds have gone on to triumph in the premier league? I don't mind us starting them a bit later if we end up with the record for most academy graduates with 100 prem appearances, or something along those lines.

 

[catcherintherye]

@catcherintherye @blueloon

Hi guys,

I am guessing Ledson/Kenny could be in contention for 1st team action by the end of the season + Dowell and Walsh perhaps next season?

What do you think? Who would they be competing with in the first team and do you think they have enough potential to make positions their own?
Also any others who may join the group such as Henen?

Separately weve signed Holgate of course, i noted that comments from (catcher i think)were saying he looks like another Stones but for concentration loss possibly as he switches off as the u21s are way below his level?? Do we think he could compete with Stones at all or be an able backup?

Lastly, Browning seems like a great local squad player but i imagine would be overtaken by Stones and Kenny soon...what do you think?

I'd be very interested to learn especially how you view these players and where you could see them making their mark in the first team and how far you think they could go.....since we had Dunne/Ball/Jeffers and others like McCann i dont think we have had such a potentially large group on the verge of coming through on top of young signings we have made...

It reminds me of O'Leary's Leeds and of.course the Beckham years at UTD.

Hi @Zatara, sorry for the slow reply and thanks for @blueloon for an excellent contribution that certainly took a lot of the things I wanted to put but did so more eloquently.

I'll try like him to answer questions sequentially. I think there is a reasonable chance that Kenny & Ledson might get around the first team towards the back end of the season. I suspect Martinez will want to try and get Kenny (and possibly Ledson) out to a championship team on loan to play a few games like he did with Browning. for Kenny a lot might depend upon the fitness of Coleman. If Coleman stays fit through January, we don't sign a rightback Coleman may need a rest as the season goes on.
I would say both might get onto the subs bench and make a sub appearance but next summer might be the one they step into the first team squad in pre season.

As for Dowell and Walsh. Dowell is the ace in the pack because I think he has an unusual talent. It's not that he is better than the others but he offers things we lack and are unusual for players his age. His vision , special awareness and ability to play "one touch" make him an interesting player. Against sides who sit back against us he is confident in the final third. He's already impressed with the first team in pre season and I think he's jumped the cue a bit. He also benefits from being the exact sort of clever tricky player Martinez has tried to use at Wigan in Maloney & Everton with Peinaar & Osman in the wide left role. Again he could be a couple of years away from being a starter but he could also be thrown in towards the end of the season.

Walsh is a very talented player but is still a bit of a way off. I think with Walsh he will be treated in the same way as the others and they will try to get him on loan next season to get him minutes. Depending on how he does they may then try to get him a loan at a high ranked club. I think they hope Walsh will continue to grow a little before he gets in, so maybe a couple of years off yet.

As for Holgate he plays with the arrogance that Stones has. He is very comfortable on the ball. Whether he can defend as well as Stones is to be seen. I think he has jumped ahead of Kenny too and has lots of games under his belt for a league 1 side. I think he will be with the first team next season and similar to Browning.

Browning's "ceiling" is a bit lower than the other two. I hope he will become our fourth choice centre half. I think with Tyias it's about mental strength and belief. He is a bit powerful lad and quite good in the air so I think centre half will be his natural position. I think he needs to be a bit more aggressive though. He needs to prove to Martinez really that there is no need to sign another centre back.

I think we have a long way to go before we can come close to emulating either O'Leary's Leeds team or especially "the class of 92". Certainly with Leeds they were bringing players through but also buying in young players who were a bit older than the lads we've got. Bowyer, Keane, Kewell were all early 20's and proven premier league players.

There are a lot of potentially good players but they have to keep developing at require everything to go right for them. I think what's interesting with Martinez is he has said he wants people in the team on merit. I don't think he will wildly throw anyone in. He also wants them to have played a certain number of competitive games and even stipulates at which level. Remember with Galloway he said 50 games at left back before he can be a centre half.

This will be true of lots of the other lads, they appear to have a tailored plan for what they want from each. In the end only the lads themselves can make that happen. Ledson needs to go and get 10-15 games for Cambridge and show he is a bit too good for that level and earn the chance of a championship loan.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think Oviedo will be gone at the end of his contract in the summer.

How does connolly look compared to Garbutt? Thats going to be his major test, getting past him...

Like Blueloon I really like the look of Connolly, he has really come on over the last 6 months in particular and is very similar to Kenny (6 months younger).

To answer your question, in most ways I would say I am more impressed with Connolly than I was with Garbutt at an equivalent age. Garbutt made the most of loan moves though did very well for a season at Cheltenham at the age of 18-19 (a year older than Connolly currently) and then a couple of years after got rave reviews down at Colchester as a 20 year old left back. So he developed really well over that time and had nearly 60 times at that level before getting his first chance at Everton. If he gets another 25 games for Fulham this season that will be 100 competitive games before he is ready to knuckle down for a starting birth.

To compare the two as players, Connolly is better defensively and more versatile, while Garbutt was the better pure left back with a better left foot. Garbutt was a little quicker and always had a brilliant left foot while being comfortable on the ball. Connolly is stronger, better in the air and tackle and also has a decent habit of popping up with goals. Garbutt always looked a bit lightweight to me as a young player.

I think what was interesting though was yesterdays game had Baines down to play in midfield. It is interesting for a couple of reasons. Firstly I think it shows Martinez is considering Baines as an option who can play in that midfield role. I know a lot of people thought it was a "failed experiment" against Newcastle but I think he played very well in there and set up a fantastic goal. I think he could play Barry's role very well.

Secondly it shows the faith they have in Connolly that he wasn't shoved out of position to make room for Baines. Finally and longer term it shows to me there might be some successional planning for the left back slot. Possibly next season Garbutt first choice, Baines more in rotation in midfield and Oviedo as a back up utility man (I think we may offer him a 1 year deal). I suspect Galloway may go out on loan if we can find a championship+ club who will give us assurances he will get game time.

 

[Raino85]

Hi @Zatara ,
Roberto has been magnificent in bringing on youngsters - Stones to Geri - to Ross - To Rom -= 4th goal is evidence of that. BUt in many ways he is conservative with his youngsters, we've gone from being the PL team with most 16 year old starters to almost a requirement of being "19 and with outside experience" before even getting into the squad. Its an area where I seem to be in a minority but I think he really needs to increase the exposure of youngsters in the squad. Yesterday, the six outfielders on the bench probably had an average age greater than the team on the field! You would expect to have a younger bench - it may be a bad match example as the u21 s play today, so Holgate, Browning may have been held back. Gerri and Ross were always coming off early, but at 4-0 what a lovely chance to say right Barry , have a rest , Holgate get on for the last 10 mins.

Its the only way to find out what the youngsters have - exposure to a higher level. I like Walsh, but I've no idea how good he is compared to other 18 year olds . Is he just a good but average player playing in a good team? Making meaningful comparisons is so difficult, I think i could do so for Connolly, Ledson and Kenny via comparisons with other England age group players who have played in their position, but that still makes it difficult to conclude if they are just good in their age group or have that something extra .

Sorry, it still turned out to be an overlong response and drifted away from your original question.

I was watching the England match the other day and picked up on Deli Alli's England youth career and apart from under 17s he hasent palyed more than 4 games for any of the england youth teams.
Put that in context with someone like Ruben Loftus Cheek (who is the same school year as Alli) has pretty much played over 10 games at every age group. With these two playing a similar position.
Ruben Loftus Cheek has played less than 10 career games while Alli has played almost 100.
Do you think Loftus Cheek is looking at Dele Alli thiking "i got in every england team ahead of him but now he is playing for the seniors at club and country level, while i am still in both under 21s"
Do people think young players may begin to look at that sort of thing before joining the acadamy of the big boys and may prefer a more gradual route?

 

[Nymzee]

I was watching the England match the other day and picked up on Deli Alli's England youth career and apart from under 17s he hasent palyed more than 4 games for any of the england youth teams.
Put that in context with someone like Ruben Loftus Cheek (who is the same school year as Alli) has pretty much played over 10 games at every age group. With these two playing a similar position.
Ruben Loftus Cheek has played less than 10 career games while Alli has played almost 100.
Do you think Loftus Cheek is looking at Dele Alli thiking "i got in every england team ahead of him but now he is playing for the seniors at club and country level, while i am still in both under 21s"
Do people think young players may begin to look at that sort of thing before joining the acadamy of the big boys and may prefer a more gradual route?

I'd say young players won't look at those things but they really should. Problem you have is the status and wealth that comes with being at a Top 4 academy in this financial time; you might play a lot less games but you're likely on a higher wage. If players cared more about actually wanting to play and not their weekly pay cheque we'd probably see a lot more well-rounded academies in the country. Loftus-Cheek as an example had outgrown the U21's a few years ago but is still not really close to being a regular in the first XI, should he move? Almost certainly. Will he move? Unlikely I'm afraid.

It's a shame really but young players are maybe ill advised when choosing which academy to join & should base their decisions more on their future expectations.