bluebrotha77
Player Valuation: £20m
Ya was thinking that alright.pity really but explainable.
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catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
There's a lot of interesting stuff in this.
Klopp when he first arrived said he was going to reverse the approach of sending youngstars out to do as you have said above, keep them together as a team and learn the clubs way of doing things. He spoke of trying to create a winning atmosphere. This is certainly what they seem to try and do at Under 21's at United.
The obvious disadvantage to this is unlike in Germany where you can enter them into a competitive league (which I think we should be allowed to do here) you are unable to. I have no idea whatsoever why the premier league u21's league is only 22 games, that seems typically ridiculous, it should be far more. I think as a half way house allowing premier league reserves teams to play in the Johnstone Paint trophy may work.
As for us, it is a difficult one. The standard in many ways may be high(er) in the under 21's. I think it's all the additional things you don't get. Playing in front of 30 people at a club training ground. Nobody's job depending on it, no promotion or relegation. How you deal with those things is very important.
United also have a history of winning things. Obviously they view a key part of their development at under 21's is teaching them to learn how to win. Getting them used to what that feeling is like. What's interesting is they do loan players out but they tend to be that bit older.
I think we have shifted a little away from getting people out on loan but that's still our preference. At the start of the season I'd have said it was nailed on Williams would be out on loan (injury permitting). I think a pragmatism has come in though. Firstly if the lad is developing well then don't change it too much. It looks like he's really improved his leadership skills. Without Kenny & Ledson around he has really filled that role and that has been good for him.
From a club perspective I think almost getting relegated last season worried them. They want Everton to be in the top division. It wasn't that we were poor last year, we just lost a lot of narrow games on the spin by a 1 goal margin (I remember a lot of 3-2's). This was around the same time they started sending lots of lads on loan at the same time (including the captain Kenny who was similar to Williams this season). We went from having an outside chance of winning the league to nearly going down. With a little more knowhow and perhaps a bit less of a kamikaze approach that could have been averted.
We are more measured now. I think you'll still see our first preference to get people out on loan and won't see is emulating Liverpool/United's approach which will be to try and win the under 21's ahead of other considerations. I do think though you will see players kept for the whole season just to keep some continuity.
chippy1722
Player Valuation: £35m
Which is better the old Reserve league, or the current U21 league. We've always had decent kids, and the present lot seem to be well thought of. Branch, Baxter, jevons and barlow etc all scored a lot of goals in the reserves but couldn't deal with the step up. Since the U21 league has come in, no one scores the level of goals they did, is it because it's a whole different game or that the U21 league, in reality is more difficult, so therefore more competitive.
....I think there's a general acceptance that the U21 league has been a failure. It's regarded as not providing the right level of competition for young professionals which is why so many are being loaned out (some to semi professional teams). It needs a re-think.
chazzle_dazzle
Player Valuation: £35m
Problem is my feeling is the leagues aren't really receptive of potential changes or avenues to look down to give the younger teams the competitive football they need and deserve.
I literally wish one day that we had the spanish/german model of second teams, then the next i don't know how it would possibly work and go off the subject.
One thing is for sure the FA need to do something and look at how we can progress some of these lads, purely from a competitive view it makes and breaks some of them - some of the quieter lads become men playing competitive football.
As you say, we've changed our philosophy a bit this season, and I'm wondering if next year we'll change again.
My thinking is our 2014 crop will be too old for u18s next season, leaving only u 21s or loans available to them. Some like Walsh, Dowell, Davies , Connolly are pretty much established u 21 s . Others have featured briefly at u21 , but have largely been u18 players - Yates, Donohue, Holland , Broadhead, Brewster, Kinsella. (Note I've left some 2014 Scholars out just concentrated on ones regularly getting mentioned/catching the eye.) You could throw in 5 2015 scholars who have featured at u21 , so you'd expect more games at this level next season - Evans, Feeny, Lavery , Lees plus Foulds as he's of an age with them. Add in the 2013 bunch still catching the eye, Williams, Ledson. Kenny, Dyson , Charsley . Plus Holgate and Antonee Robinson when back from injury. This gives a squad of 22 outfielders.Then there are the older ones like Pennington, Jones, Henen, Grant, Byrne, Duffus , Leandro .... if they are all still around .
Maybe there is scope with our in depth squad to do both - mount a challenge for the U 21 league by allowing the youngsters to come through playing together, with appropriate loans when it is right for them. If they hadn't had such a poor start with 3 points from their first 5 games our current u 21s would be challenging for the title.
.....you look at the likes of Gibson and McGeady and wonder how they are keeping a competitive edge and whether the youngsters would be better in teams alongside them.
Spotting goalscorers at an early age who will eventually make it is very difficult, unless you get an exceptional talent like the 15/16 year old Rooney. I took a look at the stats for Man U s latest 18 year old sensation, Marcus Rashford. This season at U 18s he's scored just under a goal every two games, Nathan Broadhead and Delial Brewster easily outscored him for us. And he didn't make much impact in the u21 appearances he made either. Yet somebody must have seen something to give van Gaal the nod and bang, 4 goals in 2 first team appearances, which of course may be just a flash in the pan. Maybe at u 18 he stood out as an outstanding talent in a poor team , they finished next to bottom in the North league .
"an outstanding talent in a poor team"
I think there is a lot to this at youth level.
On a scale of 1-10 where 10 is a superstar, 9 a Premier League player and 7-8 league players then you can look back at some youth teams and identify patterns.
The 1997 youth cup team was made up of a lots of 9's and 8's.
The Rooney generation was a 10 and lots of 5's and 6's
Barkley was a 9-10 with a few 9-8's
I don't think we have a Barkley/Rooney in our current U18-21 sides but I reckon we'll have a lot that make a decent career. Much like the 1997 crop.
I think there is a lot to this at youth level.
On a scale of 1-10 where 10 is a superstar, 9 a Premier League player and 7-8 league players then you can look back at some youth teams and identify patterns.
The 1997 youth cup team was made up of a lots of 9's and 8's.
The Rooney generation was a 10 and lots of 5's and 6's
Barkley was a 9-10 with a few 9-8's
I don't think we have a Barkley/Rooney in our current U18-21 sides but I reckon we'll have a lot that make a decent career. Much like the 1997 crop.
Matty_j1878
Yer ma's favorite ITK. Mmmmmm Juicy.
There's more potential ' 9's and 10's ' in that age group than any other year previously.
Then there was the 1977 Youth Cup Final team that lost to Crystal Palace, who had a few 9 s like Samson and Hilaire , where as while I enjoyed the game at Goodison I'd have probabably rated us as a few 6s. Then about 5 years later the 17 year old who'd played in that final was switched from left back to central defence and Kevin Ratcliffe went on to become one of our best defenders ever. I don't expect to see another 16 year old as good as Rooney ever, Ross's physique means he was a man before his time. Far to early yet to tell if our 17, 18 year olds are really diamonds , but I'm going to enjoy watching them develop , and if there aren't any Rooney's or Ross's there may well be a few Ratcliffes.
Lot of talk about the first team because of the new investment but I expect just as much importance placed on this aspect of the club...you can't make it rain forever in the transfer market.
Kiwi
Say NO to Ginger Managers
Agreed. Balance is important for growth, and we certainly have the talent coming through. Any players we bring through save us $$$
More importantly for me I get genuine delight in seeing a lad, especially a local one, make it from the academy to the first team. There is just such joy in watching someone achieve, if not all their dreams, at least one of them against fairly long odds.