Kiwi
Say NO to Ginger Managers
Yeah obviously that too LL, was just being a bit pragmatic in terms of how those running the club and the manager will look at things.
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MartSlinger
Player Valuation: £40m
I dont think its good enough young players playing against eachother all the time, because when you get that first team chance there isnt a younger LB on the other side that you need to beat, its a seasoned pro with vast experience.
The kids need to be playing against men every week, not other 18/19/20/21 year olds, im all for the B team format me. But that obviously makes me a Premier League snob to those who support the lesser sides.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Our age group (under 19's/under 18's) were always very strong. I think a lot of the dilemmas emerging are as a result of that really.
The standard way these things work are the under 18's mostly play at under 18's. the odd one or two may get game time with the under 21's. That is how it works at most clubs (take Liverpool for example, in the 2 under 21's derbies we played them, they had no players under 18 involved). Obviously seeing which under 18's playing above themselves are the ones to watch for.
With our strong age group though, we had a number of under 16's getting exposure to reserves football. Ledson, Dowell, Kenny (and even Donuhue pre injury) played quite regularly. As under 17's Dyson, Charsley & Williams also played a fair bit. Simplistically it created a bit of a backlog.
It is probably best viewed with Ledson, who after half a season as an under 17 captaining the team rarely played for the under 18's. By the time he had turned 18 he had been playing reserve football for 3 years and it was all a bit wasted on him.
I think we have tried to slow things down a little with the progress again. Keep more consistent squads and maybe make it a bit harder to break into the under 21's from the under 18's.
As for trying to do both, win the league and get players out on loan. I can't see it. Our focus will always be on producing players. Central to Everton DNA is playing them at a higher age even if it means losing points. I can't see us reversing that.
United and Liverpool at under 21's focus on creating a winning team. That is great too, but it costs a lot of money. They have budgets far beyond our own and can afford such a luxury, I can't see us looking to emulate that. (both might have as many as 100 pro's on their books 16 and upwards!)
I think a lot of the players you mention above will move on. I think Byrne, Duffus, Jones will never make the grade here. In the next 12 months unless they do something miraculous Henen, Leandro, Pennington & Grant will probably follow suit. Why stay to fight for an Everton under 21's league winner when opportunities at league clubs will come knocking?
However I do agree we will keep squads together more and that will be the change. This will be in part due to the current under 17's not being as strong as previous years (our under 18's/19's were better than the age groups older than them, or had players who were).
I suspect we will identify a core of 3-5 players who we will keep and not loan out. Maybe someone like Broadhead will be central to the under 21's next season. We'll then look to move others out on loan.
I am interesting to see what happens with the likes of Walsh/Kenny & Ledson coming back. They are the first trial projects of Martinez's more sequential approach. How many games/teams does he want them out on loan to, until they are closer to the first team? That will be an interesting question.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
This is a really interesting question. He also said something identical about England. I am not entirely sure I agree. Certainly under Moyes we had some modest under 18 sides but still produced some decent if unspectacular results as 21 year olds.
What does this say about David Unsworth I wonder?
Jozzy
Player Valuation: £10m
From u/18's and below most of the players are English and it's normally purely academy players from either team playing one another.
By the time the youngsters have reached the u/21's clubs have spent money on foreign prospects or players from lower divisions. Many of these prospects that the clubs have sign are much more likely to be better players and have already experienced first team football. I honesty don't think it's a case of poor development there's just such a jump between the two age groups because of it.
By the time the youngsters have reached the u/21's clubs have spent money on foreign prospects or players from lower divisions. Many of these prospects that the clubs have sign are much more likely to be better players and have already experienced first team football. I honesty don't think it's a case of poor development there's just such a jump between the two age groups because of it.
Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
Duffus and Jones i havent heard much about but Byrne was a strange signing at the time as he had been punted by united. Unless there was clear ability there then i would have thought we would have preferred to go down the "scott spencer" route (whatever happened to him!) And pay out to sign a top prospect from the lower divisions like we did with Foulds.
Regarding Leandro, Martinez said he was actually going to sign him in Jan but made the move early so he could settle in. How do you think hes done so far, you dont seem impressed...
Pennington had fantastic reviews last season at coventry and had some game time with us but i cant see him getting into the squad as theres so much competition. Strange we didnt loan him again with a view to selling in the summer?
Grant also getting good reviews at the moment, do you think he will be sold in the summer and this has been a showcase loan?
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
his contract is up in the summer i believe, he'd probably be mad to sign another one. he'll get a contract with a good league 1 side no bother.
Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
Makes a lot of sense cheers! We should get a development fee in that case or they would agree a price i guess £500k or something with add ons ?
Stephenlloyd
Player Valuation: £40m
When we beat Liverpool, 3-1 I think it was December time. Walsh seemed to be on the bench quite a lot, and unsworth came out talking about the physicality of Tom Davies, and how he's already a big powerful lad and how Williams need to fill out.
Just worrying on how unsworth looks at players. When Walsh has proved at Yeovil he can handle himself and technically is a class player. But couldn't really get a game under unsworth
bluebrotha77
Player Valuation: £20m
hindsights a great thing mate.maybe at the time unsy didnt think he was ready.he is 18 and small and maybe unsy was protecting him some bit but im really glad he is going so good at yeovil and maybe its things like not playing at everton regularly is driving him on now
Stephenlloyd
Player Valuation: £40m
Wasn't just about Walsh doing well at Yeovil. It was just about unsworth taking about the size of playershindsights a great thing mate.maybe at the time unsy didnt think he was ready.he is 18 and small and maybe unsy was protecting him some bit but im really glad he is going so good at yeovil and maybe its things like not playing at everton regularly is driving him on now
Davies is a year younger than Walsh. Don't get me wrong Davies looks a real talent
.....I wouldn't look too much into youngsters having a spell out of youth teams as there can be various reasons. What I do know is that Liam Walsh is a particular favourite of RM so there is no doubt he is very highly regarded at EFC.
Would the lads benefit from a loan spell in another nation/league, or is that too much to ask until they reach a certain age (21?) ?
Always wondered that myself. Dominic Sonalnke and I think another English lad has been playing for Chelsea's Dutch partner this year, will be interesting to see how much that loan has developed them.
