Yeah not great for him, and you've summarised his situation well - it will be my expectation though that as a measure of our club we handle the situation well for him.
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The England Youth set up is intriguing. Ledson, Kenny, Connolly have done well out of it as they play a similar set up to us with usually two DFM s, full backs pushing forward at every opportunity, similarly with James Yates , Tom Davies, Nathan Holland in the year below. Captaining your country as Ledson and Davies have done is not only an honour but great for building experience.
But it is the front four in a 4231 formation which perhaps produces the anomalies. By and large they tend to go for pacy, very direct individual players in these positions. Nathan Holland has been our only significant "up front" representative in the past couple of years at 18/17 level. Yet the equally effective Michael Donohue has been overlooked, and has arguably overtaken Holland as the better prospect this season. Similarly with Liam Walsh and Kieran Dowell who've made only fleeting appearances at youth level. Both have excellent skills and potential but Walsh is not a DFM or an individual pacy attacker and Dowell's skills also are not of the kind that attacks a defender and scores after a mazy dribble. The same could be said of Anthony Evans, an abundance of skills but not suited as the type of player England chose to pick as their attacking midfielders.
The best comparison I could make is that they chose the Gerri type player rather than a Dowell/Davies type, and it is something that often serves them poorly. International recognition is great for the player and the club, and maybe there's an element that says " Yeah , they got it right " for Ledson, Kenny , Connolly and " Boo they got it wrong " for Dowell, Davies, Evans . But the work and development we do at FF is always going to be the key influencer in their career so we should be pleased with international recognition , it's exciting, but it's not the defining criteria in their careers.
But it is the front four in a 4231 formation which perhaps produces the anomalies. By and large they tend to go for pacy, very direct individual players in these positions. Nathan Holland has been our only significant "up front" representative in the past couple of years at 18/17 level. Yet the equally effective Michael Donohue has been overlooked, and has arguably overtaken Holland as the better prospect this season. Similarly with Liam Walsh and Kieran Dowell who've made only fleeting appearances at youth level. Both have excellent skills and potential but Walsh is not a DFM or an individual pacy attacker and Dowell's skills also are not of the kind that attacks a defender and scores after a mazy dribble. The same could be said of Anthony Evans, an abundance of skills but not suited as the type of player England chose to pick as their attacking midfielders.
The best comparison I could make is that they chose the Gerri type player rather than a Dowell/Davies type, and it is something that often serves them poorly. International recognition is great for the player and the club, and maybe there's an element that says " Yeah , they got it right " for Ledson, Kenny , Connolly and " Boo they got it wrong " for Dowell, Davies, Evans . But the work and development we do at FF is always going to be the key influencer in their career so we should be pleased with international recognition , it's exciting, but it's not the defining criteria in their careers.
Whilst the level a player goes out on loan at has some baring in terms of the quality of player they are facing I firmly believe that the main importnance is playing competative football in games that matter. What the youth players need to learn from loans is the mental side of the game which can only be improved by having to be influentual in a game where the result really matters.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
Yep, interesting points. The thing is we don't have to view them all as a replacement for coleman etc. This stance may change over years dependant on the investment and where that leads. But, producing a bunch of them only as squad players can save us £20m-£30m etc. I think the barrier for looking at promise regarding youth should be, could they make it onto the bench or at least pushing that. If they wish to move on to a lower level for first team football then so be it. Take an osman for example, he's never been a first name on the teamsheet - but he's saved us a few transfer fees over the years
Not sure if that can be answered, but how much do we spend on average per youth product per year would you say? We seem to regularly let players leave on a free agent because they're not going to make the grade, we never seem to keep them on for an extra year with the view of selling them to a league 1 club for a small fee. For example, someone like keiran agard, who is now playing at a good level. I've always been intrigued by how much it costs us to keep them at the club compared to how much we could possibly re-coup with a selling fee.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
yeah spot on. i mean for example, how many times do people say (regarding the full international team) - how on earth is he in the England team?
You'll see former england u18 players never going higher than the 7th tier in their career etc.
Generally we give two year contracts to the young players, buy ins like Stones are different , I think he had a 5 year contract. Its a balance, give say 3 year or longer contracts and you risk clogging up the system and players get frustrated. Last summer had good examples in both Lundstram and Chris Long deciding not to take up new contracts as they wanted to try it on their own rather than more u21/ loan deals. So in those cases we couldn't keep them an extra year but would have received a development fee for them from their new clubs. Garbutt nearly went the same way but signed a new contract.
Personally I think the good reputation we have for developing youngsters, treating them fairly and not trying to milk them is worth preserving as its in line with our values as a club. Chelsea , with their 30 plus players out on loan, are more business like about it and are prepared to buy in a young Lukaku for £19 mill or whatever and make a profit on his sale , same with Atsu. City too are buying up and hoarding or loaning out young talent.Changes are afoot of course so well have to wait and see if our philosophy for youngsters changes too.
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
and the likes of gerrard never get recognised until u21 level
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
ah right, okay, didn't know about that, makes sense.
I suppose that would have to be considered with regards to the benefits as well.
I must admit I don't know much about the development fee and would assume that for most players where it applies we reach an amicable agreement e.g. We wouldn't be seeking to screw a league 2 club like Oxford for an unreasonable fee for Lundstram . Payback for maintaing good relations occurs when both sides agree on Kenny loan. Sometimes it's not amicable and a Tribunal is needed because the buying club is just a heap of Shoite trying to screw the smaller club out of money e.g Danny Ings from Burnley to Liverpool
bluebrotha77
Player Valuation: £20m
Is browning back training?seen a picture there awhile ago and looked like him in it.
Just checked again id say it was holgate
Just checked again id say it was holgate
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.....it is sad, especially at a crucial point in his career. Wish him well.
bluebrotha77
Player Valuation: £20m
Ya a pity.he seemed to be in a bit of form last couple of months to which makes it all the worse.speedy recovery young man
It looks like the U18 have won their first U18PL match away to Reading 1-0 , which is a good result as they beat Chelsea in the Youth Cup recently. City beat Chelsea 4-3 also.
Sadly it does little to lift the gloom after our first team's 2nd half performance , but well done the youngsters.
Sadly it does little to lift the gloom after our first team's 2nd half performance , but well done the youngsters.