Everton Youth Teams Thread

[mightymoyes]

.......Liam Walsh's goal has been named U18 Goal of the Year by the Premier League. Icing on the cake for the lad in what has been a tremendous season. It's not all doom and gloom at EFC.

it might not even have been doom and gloom for the first team if martinez had of used more of our top class youngsters instead of failures and has beens like oviedo and osman continually.

 

[Eggs]

it might not even have been doom and gloom for the first team if martinez had of used more of our top class youngsters instead of failures and has beens like oviedo and osman continually.

.....this debate has been had. All I say is that it's a massive step up and if one or two come through it is an achievement. Folk would soon complain if youngsters were blooded and made mistakes, lots of criticism of Pennington for his performance at the weekend. If they are good enough they will come through.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Not the perfect place for this piece by Honigstein, but interesting given what's discussed in this thread:

https://www.redbulletin.com/uk/en/sports/the-rise-and-fall-of-martin-odegaard

The rise and (potential) fall of Martin Ødegaard

WORDS: RAPHAEL HONIGSTEIN

MARTIN ØDEGAARD’S NAME WAS ON EVERYONE’S LIPS AT THE START OF 2015, BUT SINCE THEN HIS CAREER HAS STALLED DRAMATICALLY. THE RED BULLETIN COLUMNIST RAPHAEL HONIGSTEIN LOOKS AT THE RISE AND POTENTIAL FALL OF THE REAL MADRID YOUNGSTER

For a couple of weeks between December 2014 and January 2015, Martin Ødegaard was the best-known 16-year-old in the football world. The Norwegian attacking midfielder’s stock was so high at the time that the traditional process by which clubs sign young players was turned on its head.

Europe’s elite sides didn’t ask him to go through trial sessions; it was they who had to prove themselves as the most suitable destination to Ødegaard and his father Hans Erik. The duo’s travels around the continent developed into a bit of media circus, as club after club briefed their respective local reporters that they were in pole position for the much-coveted talent’s signature.

Real Madrid won the Martin Ødegaard casting show in the end. The Spanish giants paid around €3m to Norwegian first division club Strømsgodset IF and unveiled the somewhat camera-shy teenager at a packed press conference on January 22nd. Arsenal, Liverpool andBayern Munich had pushed Madrid for the signature, but the Ødegaard’s saw the Bernabéu as the best choice.

Apart from offering the best financial package, at a starting rate of €2m, the Merengues had a trump card in Real Madrid Castilla, the club’s second team and its star coach Zinedine Zidane. In contrast to Ødegaard’s suitors in England, Madrid’s second team play in the Spanish third division against ‘proper’ third-tier teams made up of seasoned players. Bayern Munich II only contest matches in the Regionalliga, the fourth tier of German football. In addition, Ødegaard’s contract stipulates that he trains with the first team during the week. It was only a matter of time, the two Norwegians believed, before coach Carlo Ancelotti would make the prodigious boy wonder from Drammen a regular squad member.

The ear-deafening hype has since been replaced by a rather glum silence. Ødegaard was given his senior debut in Madrid’s 7-3 win over Getafe on the last day of the 14/15 season. Since those 32 minutes, he has not played a game for the first team. Neither Rafael Benítez nor his successor, Zidane, have seen fit to give the now 17-year-old a chance to shine - the closest he came to was a place on the bench against Levante in March. He hasn’t been called up to any other first team matches either, playing his only senior football in 2016 in an international friendly against Finland (2-0).

Perhaps it was always optimistic to expect more rapid progress at one of the most star-studded clubs, in arguably the strongest league of the world, from a player who’d only started fifteen matches at Stroemsgodset before.

THE FACT THAT HE EARNS (AT LEAST) 20 TIMES MORE THAN HIS MOSTLY SPANISH TEAMMATES NATURALLY MAKES FOR A DIFFICULT WORKING ENVIRONMENT

He stood out “like a ballet dancer between elephants” while playing for the Tippeligaen side in the words of Norwegian journalist Thore Haugstad. That was never going to happen in a team with Gareth Bale and Cristiano Ronaldo. More worrying for Ødegaard, though, has been his undistinguished form for the B team.

44 games for Real Madrid Castilla B in 16 months have seen a return of just one goal and four assists. It’s impossible to suppress the suspicion that his career has stalled in the Spanish capital.

Why do some youngsters make it and some don’t? It’s one of football’s enduring mysteries. What is clear, however, is that Ødegaard has not been able to progress at Real Madrid Castilla. While reports about other players being envious of the well-paid foreign teenager have always been denied, the fact that he earns (at least) 20 times more than his mostly Spanish teammates naturally makes for a difficult working environment.

One influential official at a club that regularly plays in the Champions League privately believes that second teams don’t help develop young professionals at all. He calls them “talent destruction machines.” They are seen as a negatively charged environment where players don’t play with, but against each other in competition for contracts.

A friend of the family recently revealed that Hans Erik Ødegaard, who accompanied his son to Madrid, has started to wonder whether signing for Los Blancos was the right decision. Maybe regular games at a much smaller, low profile club would have been better? Then again, how could anyone say “no” to Real Madrid?

Ødegaard senior is still hopeful that the situation will change for the better next season, either by going out on loan, preferably to another Spanish team, or by getting more opportunities in the first team. The club are aware of the player’s frustration and have mooted the idea of a new contract to underline their commitment, but negotiations have not yet started in earnest.

There’s a lot of pressure on both sides to get this one right. Madrid don’t want to be seen as the club that harmed (or even ruined) the prospects of Europe’s most gifted child prodigy while the two Norwegians continue to second-guess themselves. Other talented youngsters around the world will be watching with interest next season to see whether Martin Ødegaard can become one of the best-known 18-year-olds in the world, or simply a byword for unfulfilled potential.

 

[mightymoyes]

.....this debate has been had. All I say is that it's a massive step up and if one or two come through it is an achievement. Folk would soon complain if youngsters were blooded and made mistakes, lots of criticism of Pennington for his performance at the weekend. If they are good enough they will come through.

depends who the manager is.

 

[Eggs]

depends who the manager is.

...it's a game based on results, if they improve the side they will jump the queue and play. There's not many that we move on and regret.

 

[catcherintherye]

...it's a game based on results, if they improve the side they will jump the queue and play. There's not many that we move on and regret.

I think that is true in the main. The only paradox of that is, with young players you often see significant improvement given to them with game time. Sometimes as little as 10 games will see rapid improvement game by game. I remember in cricket it was said a young player needed 15 4 day matches before you could start judging them. That's probably around 30-50 games in football.

That is kind of the paradox really though isn't it? What do you do with a player who isn't good enough today but with 6 months exposure may well be better than what we currently have? Very few players will ever be good enough at 18. In leagues where there is not a lot of money the culture is to throw them in as they have no money when replacements are sold. Without that pressure young players don't get a chance. It is the systemic difficulty that holds young players back in this country with abundance of money.

It's difficult really, Walsh & Ledson could be very good premier league players but if you were selecting a side for Sunday they are not better than Barry & McCarthy. Finding that balance is difficult.

Martinez has gone which while a relief is a bit of a shame as it would have been interesting to see how the end of his project would have worked. Pennington is probably his biggest success story. He has been out on loan 3 times interweaved with some first team appearances and under 21's games and now comes into the side and looks physically, mentally and technically ready. Martinez spoke of having young players playing when they can contribute and you can see we are now not dropping the standard to put him in.

I think the final point in being good enough, is it needs a strong manager. I spoke to someone close to Harry Redknapp recently who said he always told his son to go in first thing on Monday morning if he was dropped. Never make it easy for the manager to drop you, especially as a young player, so he learnt to go march into Evans office. It will always be easier to leave the young player out on 2k per week than a guy who you've paid multi-millions for. I think a lot of managers hide behind that.

 

[blueloon]

.......Liam Walsh's goal has been named U18 Goal of the Year by the Premier League. Icing on the cake for the lad in what has been a tremendous season. It's not all doom and gloom at EFC.

Did you see that the Academy goal of the year was a back heel by a 10 year old, would love to see that as it beat Walsh's and Dowell's.

.....this debate has been had. All I say is that it's a massive step up and if one or two come through it is an achievement. Folk would soon complain if youngsters were blooded and made mistakes, lots of criticism of Pennington for his performance at the weekend. If they are good enough they will come through.

I disagree with you on that mate, it may be repetitive but it hasn't been had, for me it's still continuing. We have one match
left, and I would love to see a back four of Pennington, Stones, Galloway , Connolly. Youngsters will always make mistakes , just as senior players will, and folk will always complain about any mistakes. This is not about say six months ago and people saying promising youngsters should be played in place of established first teamers playing well, This is about injuries leaving us short , 1st teamers playing poorly and looking disinterested and youngsters not being given a chance.

The RB spot is perhaps the best example. People nodded wisely after the Southampton game about how Connolly would be exposed. Instead we had senior players playing RB giving probably some of the poorest performances there this season. At least Hibbert made an effort when he came on. Would Connolly have done better? Well we'll never know. He's clearly too inexperienced to be regarded as a permanent solution, but we have coaching staff incapable of taking a very sound player, one of the best athletes in his age group, and coaching him in the requirements needed for specific games. Instead we got what we got and are now where we are. Pennington? Well there's a case to say that he's been our best defender over the past two games, all be it in two poor team performances , and there's certainly a case to say he's been our best RB in Coleman's absence even on just one
This whole issue for me was summed up in the 80th minute against Leicester , my heart sank and I knew it was the end this season for anybody with an interest in our youngsters as Osman trotted onto the pitch .
Edit: interrupted and posted before I saw the Martinez news, so a bit irrelevant now.

 

[Eggs]

Did you see that the Academy goal of the year was a back heel by a 10 year old, would love to see that as it beat Walsh's and Dowell's.

I disagree with you on that mate, it may be repetitive but it hasn't been had, for me it's still continuing. We have one match
left, and I would love to see a back four of Pennington, Stones, Galloway , Connolly. Youngsters will always make mistakes , just as senior players will, and folk will always complain about any mistakes. This is not about say six months ago and people saying promising youngsters should be played in place of established first teamers playing well, This is about injuries leaving us short , 1st teamers playing poorly and looking disinterested and youngsters not being given a chance.

The RB spot is perhaps the best example. People nodded wisely after the Southampton game about how Connolly would be exposed. Instead we had senior players playing RB giving probably some of the poorest performances there this season. At least Hibbert made an effort when he came on. Would Connolly have done better? Well we'll never know. He's clearly too inexperienced to be regarded as a permanent solution, but we have coaching staff incapable of taking a very sound player, one of the best athletes in his age group, and coaching him in the requirements needed for specific games. Instead we got what we got and are now where we are. Pennington? Well there's a case to say that he's been our best defender over the past two games, all be it in two poor team performances , and there's certainly a case to say he's been our best RB in Coleman's absence even on just one
This whole issue for me was summed up in the 80th minute against Leicester , my heart sank and I knew it was the end this season for anybody with an interest in our youngsters as Osman trotted onto the pitch .
Edit: interrupted and posted before I saw the Martinez news, so a bit irrelevant now.

......I'm absolutely not against blooding youngsters, indeed I was calling for a conventional RB in the semi final as opposed to Besic. All I'm trying to do is manage expectation and highlight that the majority of youngsters will not make it to the top table. I think it's wrong to clamour for an introduction of youth players because they might not be good enough or ready. If they are nobody is more chuffed than me.

 

[blueloon]

Brendan Galloway selected for England u 21s squad in Toulon tournament next week. I'm not sure if he's ever been capped due to injuries , should make it this time.
Morgan Feeney started for England u 17 s as they beat Denmark 3-1 to finish 2nd in their group, meaning they play Spain in the 1/4 Final, a tough match.

 

[summerisle]

 

[blueloon]

Aye the 'Class of 14" have been our most successful in recent years with Dowell, Davies, Connolly making their debuts and of course Walsh doing so well at Yeovil, but they're now moving out of the tender arms of Sheedy into the u21s. There's a number of talented players in that year who have still to make an impact at U21 level, and on the law of %s maybe we've got our quota on the four mentioned above , but there's at least five who have shown something at u18 level who may just kick on again next season, Brewster, Broadhead, Holland, Donohue and Yates. It will be exciting to see if they can add some goalscoring to a sound defensive u21 squad.

 

[atrottel]

Going to be some tough decisions coming up in defence and midfield, I suspect, when it comes to who is kept on and who starts and who goes on loan (especially given the limits on loans mentioned in the loan thread).

Including current U21s and those who have been loaned out:

Defence
Garbutt
Browning
Galloway
Holgate
Foulds
Pennington
Kenny
Thorniley
Robinson
Jones
Connolly

Midfield
Williams
Davies
Walsh
Dowell
Grant
Ledson
Evans
Donohue
Charsley

Forwards don't seem as inspiring but we still have a few of them:
Duffus x2 (or is the younger one a midfielder?)
Henen
Lavery
Rodriguez
Tarashaj
Byrne
McAleny
Brewster
Dyson

 

[grandjoeblue]

The academy seems to be working wonders when you consider the teams in the North West.

Sheedy and Unsworth have done a fantastic job with the young lads who are coming through.

 

[bluewally]

Brendan Galloway selected for England u 21s squad in Toulon tournament next week. I'm not sure if he's ever been capped due to injuries , should make it this time.
Morgan Feeney started for England u 17 s as they beat Denmark 3-1 to finish 2nd in their group, meaning they play Spain in the 1/4 Final, a tough match.

Galloway out of tournament with injury. He has no luck with injuries for internationals

 

[blueloon]

Going to be some tough decisions coming up in defence and midfield, I suspect, when it comes to who is kept on and who starts and who goes on loan (especially given the limits on loans mentioned in the loan thread).

Including current U21s and those who have been loaned out:

Defence
Garbutt
Browning
Galloway
Holgate
Foulds
Pennington
Kenny
Thorniley
Robinson
Jones
Connolly

Midfield
Williams
Davies
Walsh
Dowell
Grant
Ledson
Evans
Donohue
Charsley

Forwards don't seem as inspiring but we still have a few of them:
Duffus x2 (or is the younger one a midfielder?)
Henen
Lavery
Rodriguez
Tarashaj
Byrne
McAleny
Brewster
Dyson

I would add Broadhead and Holland to your list in the sense that they are too old for U18, and promising players who will add to the pressure on those older than them . Tough decisions ahead. We need someone to manage this aspect of looking after the loan youngsters , upcoming players . I know Joe Royle fulfills this role to a certain extent, but our youngsters are making us look like Chelsea with our numbers of talented players except we haven't gone out and paid huge amounts of money. If they can manage 35-40 players on loan then maybe we should be looking at a similar, but obviously smaller operation whereby we don't let them leave the club but manage them on loan for another year or too.