Farhad Moshiri

[Tubey]

Yeah thanks for calling fellow Evertonians this... glad you are on our side mate.

Not fear of scrutiny it's just some people see doomsday scenarios where they don't exist...

That's the thing though - you don't know it doesn't exist, as you haven't scrutinised what is going on for a clue as to whether it might.

This is akin to gamers hyping up a game before release, convinced beyond all doubt that nothing can go wrong. I'm not saying Moshiri is a fraud - I'm not even saying it is likely he is - but what I will say is that people aren't looking at what he's doing with a questioning mind. They're just hoping for the best.

 

[roydo]

They have control: they pay themselves and funders and then they hand the remainder to EFC.

I think it's you that needs to pay attention, tbh.

Control? Of what?

In the absence of everyones fave Russian Billionaire, chance will be that finance will be a few massive insurance companies, who just love low risk, stable tenants and a stable yield for their commercial property portfolios.

They have less than zero interest in "controlling" anything.

 

[davek]

How does that happen then?

Unless I have missed something, we will have a lease/mortgage in all reality. We pay that off, and then own BM. In the meantime, as long as we pay the cash each year/dont go bust, we run the club as a private company. Like we have forever.

And as a handy aside, we can generate tons more income and stuff from a brilliant ground making ^^^ less likely than currently.

Again. like others, you're assuming an awful lot about how things will roll out. There are no certainties about football remaining buoyant. If you study the history of professional football in England you'll see it has contours of boom and decline; wax and wane. Over 40 years we will be subject to that...in fact, a bit like one of the those inactive volcanoes, it's overdue a convulsion.

How on earth can any Evertonian simply accept a deal that places us at the mercy of finance capital and the local state with a shrug of the shoulders?

A stadium should be manageable cost wise. If that means a stadium elsewhere with a different facility, then so be it. I'd rather that than see Everton in jeopardy. The costs on this proposed stadium are going to be eye-watering in the end. We all know deep down that £350M is a figure strictly for the birds. This will be about £500M and it'll be blamed on convenient excuses like Spurs did with 'Brexit affects'.

Imo, this is a foolhardy plan that can get this club in a lot of trouble. We are being badly led here...again.

 

[ashwuk76]

That's the thing though - you don't know it doesn't exist, as you haven't scrutinised what is going on for a clue as to whether it might.

This is akin to gamers hyping up a game before release, convinced beyond all doubt that nothing can go wrong. I'm not saying Moshiri is a fraud - I'm not even saying it is likely he is - but what I will say is that people aren't looking at what he's doing with a questioning mind. They're just hoping for the best.

I for one and not just closing my eyes and hoping for the best. But having seen the deal I genuinely don't know if we could get a better way of funding the stadium...

If we use naming rights to do it... then we couldn't use that for players.. if we used commercial deals for it... we couldn't use it for players or whatever else...

How would you fund it then? Genuine question.. what deal that doesn't involve moshiri paying for it himself would you prefer?

 

[Tubey]

I think that comment regarding the fanbase is inaccurate and extremely patronising

There's nothing wrong with wanting to see and understand the detail, but when you're coming at it from the angle of labelling the man a 'no mark owner' it's hardly surprising that people are questioning the validity of his scrutiny.

Personally it makes perfect sense to me, we've got most of the annual cost covered with the previous debt clearance and the FF sponsorship. That's before we've even thought about the incremental revenue generated by the stadium plus the naming rights (which given Spurs are looking for £30m p.a., could well cover the majority of the cost on their own)

Once the full details of the stadium emerge and the plan for the surrounding infrastructure, combined with a more detailed costing and therefore repayment details, it can be picked over then. To label the funding model as Moshiri somehow running away from his responsibilities is agenda driven drivel imo.

I wasn't referring to the stadium model - I was referring to Moshiri in general. I wasn't defending davek's whole post - just the quoted part.

The stadium deal may make sense and be a good one... if it happens. My point is it hasn't yet. Until it does, people should be cautious.

The same argument was made by me in the summer - people were convinced beyond all doubt we'd spend money, loads of money, and that it was 'scaremongering' to question Moshiri's intent, and that I'd look foolish come September.

Look at how that turned out.

 

[Vault]

You're alright calling people idiots though so don't all of a sudden take some moral stance.

You're an idiot

 

[ashwuk76]

Again. like others, you're assuming an awful lot about how things will roll out. There are no certainties about football remaining buoyant. If you study the history of professional football in England you'll see it has contours of boom and decline; wax and wane. Over 40 years we will be subject to that...in fact, a bit like one of the those inactive volcanoes, it's overdue a convulsion.

How on earth can any Evertonian simply accept a deal that places us at the mercy of finance capital and the local state with a shrug of the shoulders?

A stadium should be manageable cost wise. If that means a stadium elsewhere with a different facility, then so be it. I'd rather that than see Everton in jeopardy. The cots on this proposed stadium are going to be eye-watering in the end. We all know deep down that £350M is a figure strictly for the birds. This will be about £500M and it'll be blamed on convenient excuses like Spurs did with 'Brexit affects'.

Imo, this is a foolhardy plan that can get this club in a lot of trouble. We are being badly led here...again.

So what funding deal do you want then?? How would you fund it?

So your mortgage is probably over 25 years just like everyone else give or take a few years... that's a risk right? But one you are ok with because you are confident enough you can pay it back.... same with everton.

 

[roydo]

There are no certainties about football remaining buoyant.

Indeed.

But back to risk, THAT is the risk, in the relative short term as well. The repayments in our current state are easily affordable. Modest even. In real terms, they will fall over time.

I would suggest that bigger risks than football imploding would be acts of God, fire, terrorist attack, and relegation.

 

[Gladystweet]

@davek today......

 

[GwladysBlue]

If we don't take the risk, we stay as we are. It really is that simple.

Let's take the risk and see if we can get back to where we belong.

 

[davek]

No they dont have control... read the document.. . We pay money into an account and they take the rent from that.. you know.. like a normal bank account works. They only have control of the money if and when we run out of money so that they can paid first before anything else.

Yes, that's called CONTROL over our finances mate. In good times it looks a piece of piss. In bad times it can sink us.

Time to stop the present mindedness in all this analysis and start factoring in long term tendencies within the game. That's what I'm doing here, and it's why we are at loggerheads.

 

[Tubey]

I for one and not just closing my eyes and hoping for the best. But having seen the deal I genuinely don't know if we could get a better way of funding the stadium...

If we use naming rights to do it... then we couldn't use that for players.. if we used commercial deals for it... we couldn't use it for players or whatever else...

How would you fund it then? Genuine question.. what deal that doesn't involve moshiri paying for it himself would you prefer?

I have no clue! That's actually my overall point - none of us do. Nobody knows the best way to do it.

But then, don't you have a fear that this could all be a bit Fortress Sports Fund-ish? Thus far anonymous funders pledging money to a project that doesn't yet exist?

When Moshiri bought us, people were convinced he'd buy us a new stadium, fund the squad and make us challengers. What's actually happened? He's getting basically a consortium to buy a stadium (which Kenwright, if he was competent, could have done in theory), invested nothing in the squad (sold to buy - again, a Kenwright specialty) as of yet and as such seen us face another two transfer windows of conjecture over our best players because we're not displaying ambition.

Yes, he hasn't been here long, but Lukaku was 100% right on one thing - when City's owners arrived, they made a splash, instant display of ambition with Robinho within hours, and didn't stop the momentum. What did Moshiri do? A paragraph in a match programme, sell John Stones and panic buy with the money, before proceeding to make us a laughing stock on deadline day with his 'McCarthy is family' comments to Jim sodding White.

That's my reason for urging caution. He's done nothing other than spout off a few soundbytes to Jim White since he arrived. Nothing has changed. And after two spectacularly terrible owners on the spin, I'm constantly amazed that Evertonians give Moshiri a free pass without anything actually happening to justify it.

Cautious optimism is one thing, but blind hope is another thing entirely. The fanbase in general is, in my view, the latter. I voted "Yes" to the poll on this thread; but it was always a cautious yes.

 

[davek]

Control? Of what?

In the absence of everyones fave Russian Billionaire, chance will be that finance will be a few massive insurance companies, who just love low risk, stable tenants and a stable yield for their commercial property portfolios.

They have less than zero interest in "controlling" anything.

It's parasitic capital. Of course they'll leave well alone as long as they get there yield. But like all bloodsuckers they will kill the host if left on long enough. That's my view: you expose yourself to such vampirism for as short a time as possible, because the winds can change quickly and we might find ourselves at their mercy.

 

[davek]

So what funding deal do you want then?? How would you fund it?

So your mortgage is probably over 25 years just like everyone else give or take a few years... that's a risk right? But one you are ok with because you are confident enough you can pay it back.... same with everton.

We've been over this.

 

[roydo]

Yes, that's called CONTROL over our finances mate. In good times it looks a piece of piss. In bad times it can sink us.

Time to stop the present mindedness in all this analysis and start factoring in long term tendencies within the game. That's what I'm doing here, and it's why we are at loggerheads.

But the bad times you allude to would have to be so bad that chances are no PL club would be immune.

I mean, with Chelsea, what would happen if RA dropped dead, tomorrow, and his wife, or kids, or estate decided they didnt fancy being involved with Chelsea, and asked for his loan back?

Not that I have a clue how all that is structured mind. For all I know, it could be repayable in Fruit Gums.