Farhad Moshiri

[catcherintherye]

It matters if he is really involved and as nothing but speculation says he is I can't look at our situation as if he is.

It doesn't really matter if me or you know or not know if he's involved for the subject of the discussion though.

We have an owner who is ready to pump money into the club, akin to levels only seen at City/Chelsea. They did not stop part way through and seek to become profitable. They kept going until they hit their objective.

You or I might want us to run like RB Leipzig. We don't own the club though. Moshiri does and he will run it how he sees fit, an if it goes wrong, provide more funds. I honestly wouldn't get too worried about that specific point.

 

[catcherintherye]

A clue. Don’t look into your “official” owner.

Ok. Usmanov was found guilty of a charge of fraud. Fraud and theft are different things.

 

[H.H.]

Honestly if you're concerned with where the money comes from then the best thing to do is just avoid sports. Like all of them. I don't think a single one exists that isn't financed by people who have become rich behind scummy practices.

I wish it wasn't the case.

Not quite true but you’re correct, in the last couple of decades, laundering dirty money through football clubs/sports teams has become a regular occurrence.

 

[Neiler]

I've said for some time now, re Moshiri there are a couple of possibilities;
1) His wealth goes well beyond the 2bn it is cautiously estimated at. I mean while there is an acknowledgement he has more money, it could go way beyond what the estimates suggest.

2) That Moshiri is a front man for a consortium (likely USM & friends).

3) Both of the above

Whether someone wants to put their head in the sand and fall back on "no official proof" or whatever is up to them. But what can't be denied, is that his bankrolling of the club is now on the same course as essentially only Chelsea and City were. It shows no sign of stopping, and seems to be increasing. It would be far more unlikely that it just stops one day.

A lot of people confuse them wanting the club to be run ike RB Leipzig or whatever, with how the club is actually run. It's confirmation bias.

I admittedly had my doubts but the evidence has been overwhelming over the past three years, I think he’s a front for the consortium myself.

So it looks like we are following the Chelsea and City model, invest in players. managers, grow the profile, grow commercial revenue, until you become self sustainable. Not sure we have practically done it well, but that seems the model all the same.

Maybe there isn’t another way, these days, I was always a fan of what Arsenal did under Wenger and a self sustainable approach, I admired Spurs under Poch and the development approach until Levy baggsed it up.

The latter model is for romanticises the former realists maybe.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Not quite true but you’re correct, in the last couple of decades, laundering dirty money through football clubs/sports teams has become a regular occurrence.

It's not even that. I mean look at Kreonke who is married to one of the Waltons who own Wal-Mart which I think is a lot of his wealth. Wal-Mart is a horrid company but it isn't money laundering.

Very few billionaires out there who I'd call ethical and they own almost all of sports. You can't really be a fan and claim any type of moral high ground on it.

 

[H.H.]

It doesn't really matter if me or you know or not know if he's involved for the subject of the discussion though.

We have an owner who is ready to pump money into the club, akin to levels only seen at City/Chelsea. They did not stop part way through and seek to become profitable. They kept going until they hit their objective.

You or I might want us to run like RB Leipzig. We don't own the club though. Moshiri does and he will run it how he sees fit, an if it goes wrong, provide more funds. I honestly wouldn't get too worried about that specific point.

Again Catch, you’re burying your head in the sand. It isn’t your owner ploughing money into the club.

I read a few pages back that Moshri is worth about a couple of billion, why on earth would he pump a sizeable % (£500 million,) of his money into a football club that he has never had any attachment to?

 

[TheBigIguana]

I've said for some time now, re Moshiri there are a couple of possibilities;
1) His wealth goes well beyond the 2bn it is cautiously estimated at. I mean while there is an acknowledgement he has more money, it could go way beyond what the estimates suggest.

2) That Moshiri is a front man for a consortium (likely USM & friends).

3) Both of the above

Whether someone wants to put their head in the sand and fall back on "no official proof" or whatever is up to them. But what can't be denied, is that his bankrolling of the club is now on the same course as essentially only Chelsea and City were. It shows no sign of stopping, and seems to be increasing. It would be far more unlikely that it just stops one day.

A lot of people confuse them wanting the club to be run ike RB Leipzig or whatever, with how the club is actually run. It's confirmation bias.

I know we are starting to talk about money that goes beyond what it seems like Moshiri could invest on his own, but we aren't actually there. I wouldn't call wanting actual facts confirmation bias. I agree the club seems to be running itself like the money won't ever run out and that does seem to point to more than just Farhad but it is still some degree of inferring to say he's a front for USM and friends.

 

[H.H.]

Ok. Usmanov was found guilty of a charge of fraud. Fraud and theft are different things.

That’s all you could find?
I said mate, you don’t want the truth.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I admittedly had my doubts but the evidence has been overwhelming over the past three years, I think he’s a front for the consortium myself.

So it looks like we are following the Chelsea and City model, invest in players. managers, grow the profile, grow commercial revenue, until you become self sustainable. Not sure we have practically done it well, but that seems the model all the same.

Maybe there isn’t another way, these days, I was always a fan of what Arsenal did under Wenger and a self sustainable approach, I admired Spurs under Poch and the development approach until Levy baggsed it up.

The latter model is for romanticises the former realists maybe.

It's more the first model is for clubs with unlimited money and the second for ones with a limit. I mean you can't really invest, invest, invest as a strategy unless the money is always there.

 

[TheBigIguana]

That’s all you could find?
I said mate, you don’t want the truth.

We're all very eager for you to provide it mate. But the ball is in your court as it is Friday night and I'm not arsed.

 

[mmmmsnouts]

It's not even that. I mean look at Kreonke who is married to one of the Waltons who own Wal-Mart which I think is a lot of his wealth. Wal-Mart is a horrid company but it isn't money laundering.

Very few billionaires out there who I'd call ethical and they own almost all of sports. You can't really be a fan and claim any type of moral high ground on it.

There’s a big point being missed here. Kroenke married into a family that does legitimate business, so the money will keep coming. Clubs run off the back of money laundering and organized crime can (in theory at least) be brought to their knees in the blink of an eye if someone decides to crack down on it. This is a very dangerous time for Everton. If the money stops being available for whatever reason before they can become self-sufficient, they are Sunderland 2.0.

 

[TheBigIguana]

There’s a big point being missed here. Kroenke married into a family that does legitimate business, so the money will keep coming. Clubs run off the back of money laundering and organized crime can (in theory at least) be brought to their knees in the blink of an eye if someone decides to crack down on it. This is a very dangerous time for Everton. If the money stops being available for whatever reason they are Sunderland 2.0.

I'm not talking about it from that standpoint at all. My point is more that if you're worried about the money from a moral perspective, which is what our head patting amigo was discussing, than you just can't really watch sports at all because immoral owners basically run the show in every single instance.

Now if you want to say the Waltons are moral people that is different but I certainly will not be doing that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Again Catch, you’re burying your head in the sand. It isn’t your owner ploughing money into the club.

I read a few pages back that Moshri is worth about a couple of billion, why on earth would he pump a sizeable % (£500 million,) of his money into a football club that he has never had any attachment to?

All very fair mate, but the origins of the discussion was about us needing to become better run. If you have a wealthy owner, he has no motive to want to do that.

Love it or loath it, he isnt going to change his thinking is he?

It would like me saying Mourinho has to start thinking long term with young players. It's just not going to happen. I'm not sure theres any point beating yourself up, expecting something to happen that never will.

 

[Neiler]

It's more the first model is for clubs with unlimited money and the second for ones with a limit. I mean you can't really invest, invest, invest as a strategy unless the money is always there.

Both models are argueably based on self sustainability I think. One accepts a development approach to be sucessful and self sustainable, the other accepts that investment is required to develop a new financial mean to be self sustainable and successful by growing their profile through investment.

 

[H.H.]

It's not even that. I mean look at Kreonke who is married to one of the Waltons who own Wal-Mart which I think is a lot of his wealth. Wal-Mart is a horrid company but it isn't money laundering.

Very few billionaires out there who I'd call ethical and they own almost all of sports. You can't really be a fan and claim any type of moral high ground on it.

I’m not in any way trying to claim the moral high ground but I’m pointing out that as long as it’s good for the club, Evertonian’s don’t give a monkeys where the money comes from (or as one person wrote earlier, the money the small stakeholders are going to lose because of the devaluation of their shares.)

As you say, it is what it is with these grubby very wealthy owners but perhaps posters should now refrain from using the term
“The People’s Club.”