final league position target

[Kendall's Dream]

We're 2000/1 to win the league if anyone is interested

 

[Goat]

at the start of the season if we were offered 8th, a semi final and who knows what in the fa cup, i think most fans will have deemed it defintely acceptable

expectations have changed due to the (under)performances of other teams

Nar.

I wouldnt have taken a season of failure.

 

[BlueToff]

Nar.

I wouldnt have taken a season of failure.

Top 8 a failure now then?

Okay.

I'm not saying I'd have been delighted by it at, but I'd have deemed it acceptable at the start of the season.

Now, top 8 would represent a very good return following the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc.

 

[maccavennie]

at the start of the season if we were offered 8th, a semi final and who knows what in the fa cup, i think most fans will have deemed it defintely acceptable

expectations have changed due to the (under)performances of other teams

Nope expectations haven't changed due to under performances of others, that's just added to the feeling that we've absolutely balled up the league this season ( as things stand )

If someone offered 8th and any trophy I would take that. That may still happen btw and lets hope so. But if anyone had ideas of 6th or lower at the start of this season and thinking that would be decent league wise, well I just don't get that tbh, I just can't see how before a ball has been kicked anyone could say that's acceptable.

March the 2nd, 11th in the league. Pathetic tbh.

Luckily we have a good few games to salvage our league position so all is not lost yet and we are still in the fa cup.

The league don't lie though, I wish people would just call it as it is, we are 11th and that's where we deserve to be at the minute.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Top 8 a failure now then?

Okay.

I'm not saying I'd have been delighted by it at, but I'd have deemed it acceptable at the start of the season.

Now, top 8 would represent a very good return following the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc.

Context though. If you'd said that in the same season Leicester and Tottenham would get top 4, Liverpool, Chelsea and United would be out of the top 4 in March, where would Everton be? Most fans would have said 'brilliant we're probably in the top 4 or at least putting up a serious challenge to it'. 'Nah mate we're not even top half'. Context.

Europa league qualification would rescue a poor league season so far.

 

[Goat]

Top 8 a failure now then?

Okay.

I'm not saying I'd have been delighted by it at, but I'd have deemed it acceptable at the start of the season.

Now, top 8 would represent a very good return following the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc.

Yes Top 8 is a failure, any season we dont win a trophy is a failure, the seasons when we get Europa and our brief CL season, they are acceptable failures.

But I aspire to do more than finish in the top 8 every season, I have done since 1995, havent you?

 

[BlueToff]

Context though. If you'd said that in the same season Leicester and Tottenham would get top 4, Liverpool, Chelsea and United would be out of the top 4 in March, where would Everton be? Most fans would have said 'brilliant we're probably in the top 4 or at least putting up a serious challenge to it'. 'Nah mate we're not even top half'. Context.

Europa league qualification would rescue a poor league season so far.

Exactly, context. It would have been deemed acceptable at the start of the season and the reason it isn't now is because of how things have developed throughout the campaign re. the other sides mentioned.

Agree with the second point. Don't think it's been poor - at times it has - but on the whole just incredibly frustrating.

 

[Tubey]

at the start of the season if we were offered 8th, a semi final and who knows what in the fa cup, i think most fans will have deemed it defintely acceptable

expectations have changed due to the (under)performances of other teams

They really haven't - for most people, 7th has been the baseline of achievement throughout.

I said this in December.

It should be the aim every year, and falling well off it two years on the bounce is grounds for sacking on the basis of failure in my view.

These are the only sides I'll accept finishing behind - City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool. No one else, and that's based on finances and their recent history.

This season, Leicester will finish above us, so that's seven sides at this point that could finish above. I'll accept that. That's why I'd class 7th as a "success" at this point, as you're displacing a club that could foreseeably finish above you.

8th would be par, but after a poor season last year par is not good enough for me. I want to see progression. There's no excuse either - no Europe, no "period of transition" - nothing. So, for me, it's 7th, or it's failure. Certainly anything below 8th is total failure.

Which is what I said - I expect us to finish bare minimum 7th and go beyond that probably.

That's why I'm classifying what would be failure in my eyes. I see any attempt to redefined the goalposts and say something like 9th/10th is "OK" as ridiculous.

Given how it's such a poor season, 8th would be a relative "success" for Martinez, but not for Everton, and certainly at the start of the season 8th would have been universally considered a failure.

The cups are totally irrelevant unless you win them. We could get to both finals, lose them both, and I couldn't care less about making the final. The league is everything.

 

[maccavennie]

Context though. If you'd said that in the same season Leicester and Tottenham would get top 4, Liverpool, Chelsea and United would be out of the top 4 in March, where would Everton be? Most fans would have said 'brilliant we're probably in the top 4 or at least putting up a serious challenge to it'. 'Nah mate we're not even top half'. Context.

Europa league qualification would rescue a poor league season so far.

That's just been kind as well tbh mate. Honestly, how many people on the whole of this forum would have said at the start of this season would have said 7th or 8th was successful? 5% if that imo.

Martinez ain't getting sacked but surely it's ok to be open and honest and say he's led this team ( so far this season ) to an absolutely crap run in the league. I'm not lying because we are 11th and results prove it.

Still time for things to change for the better but so much of this season we have just chucked away to not even put ourselves in a position where we could be going for 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

 

[BlueToff]

Yes Top 8 is a failure, any season we dont win a trophy is a failure, the seasons when we get Europa and our brief CL season, they are acceptable failures.

But I aspire to do more than finish in the top 8 every season, I have done since 1995, havent you?

Well I was only born in 95 so since 2002 yes I have.

We haven't won a trophy in 20 years, obviously, and that is a failure on the club's part since then. But I wouldn't deem many of our seasons since then as 'failures'... 03/04 was a failure (17th), 05/06, 09/10. The latter Moyes years were stagnant but not 'failures' (imo). Last season was a failure. This season is still left to be decided.

 

[BlueToff]

They really haven't - for most people, 7th has been the baseline of achievement throughout.

I said this in December.





Given how it's such a poor season, 8th would be a relative "success" for Martinez, but not for Everton, and certainly at the start of the season 8th would have been universally considered a failure.

The cups are totally irrelevant unless you win them. We could get to both finals, lose them both, and I couldn't care less about making the final. The league is everything.

okay then mate.

I'm pretty sure i saw loads of people at the start of the season say (two good cup runs etc. etc.) and a top 7 finish.

8th now, would be acceptable as it would mean we'd put together a run. I think 8th at the start of the season could have been deemed realistically acceptable, not knowing how the season was going to pan out, as it's my view that (as of the start of the season) there were 7 squads level if not better than our own.

I believe I predicted 7th at the start, so for the sake of it I'm willing to concede my argument and say 8th would be a 'failure' in how people on here are judging it.

 

[deipnosophist]

Top 8 a failure now then?

Okay.

I'm not saying I'd have been delighted by it at, but I'd have deemed it acceptable at the start of the season.

Now, top 8 would represent a very good return following the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc.

We could come 17th this year and Martinez apologists( aka cultists) would still deem it a successful season because with "the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc" we might well have been relegated. Presumably, according to the cult, that escape was due to Martinez's fine helmsmanship.
To date, it's been a very poor on field season- end of.
As Evertonians, we hope it will improve over the next 11 games.
If we get into Europe (via cup win or league), I'd keep Martinez because he's achieved a goal I would expect of him. If we don't, I'd fire him.
Nothing personal like Roberto...

 

[BlueToff]

We could come 17th this year and Martinez apologists( aka cultists) would still deem it a successful season because with "the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc" we might well have been relegated. Presumably, according to the cult, that escape was due to Martinez's fine helmsmanship.
To date, it's been a very poor on field season- end of.
As Evertonians, we hope it will improve over the next 11 games.
If we get into Europe (via cup win or league), I'd keep Martinez because he's achieved a goal I would expect of him. If we don't, I'd fire him.
Nothing personal like Roberto...

Nothing beats a nice, sweeping broad statement eh lad

If we finished 17th, I'd want him out mate.

I doubt we're going to, personally.

My point is that he isn't going to get fired if he doesn't win a cup or get into Europe. He will be under considerable pressure, but he won't get fired. I can guarantee that, even with the new investor on board.

 

[kithnou]

We could come 17th this year and Martinez apologists( aka cultists) would still deem it a successful season because with "the points we have thrown away/had taken away at times etc etc" we might well have been relegated. Presumably, according to the cult, that escape was due to Martinez's fine helmsmanship.
To date, it's been a very poor on field season- end of.
As Evertonians, we hope it will improve over the next 11 games.
If we get into Europe (via cup win or league), I'd keep Martinez because he's achieved a goal I would expect of him. If we don't, I'd fire him.
Nothing personal like Roberto...

You'd think he gets next season form the new owner. Another one like this one and surely even davek will admit he's gone.

 

[deipnosophist]

You'd think he gets next season form the new owner. Another one like this one and surely even davek will admit he's gone.

I don't disagree with this reality mate and tbh, I don't too-much-fret over it. I sincerely hope Martinez does extremely well, since such concludes that our team (of which he is managerial steward) does well. My fear remains however , that we over-continue to conflate ambition with ability. Time will tell, I guess.