Financial Fair Play investigation

[mahermi1]

Anyone think a 3 point deduction with 6 point suspended sentence for future financial breaches makes sense as far as Premier League are concerned.
Everton might just about accept that as manageable next season and Burnley wouldn't have a case against their relegation because we were 4 points clear!
Also sets a lowish precedent with City and probably Chelsea next up!
Ticks all the boxes without all hell breaking loose.

No mate it makes no sense at all..after all the Premier league were satisfied last year with our books, why should we accept a ruling from independent assessors.

 

[Yarrgh]

Anyone think a 3 point deduction with 6 point suspended sentence for future financial breaches makes sense as far as Premier League are concerned.
Everton might just about accept that as manageable next season and Burnley wouldn't have a case against their relegation because we were 4 points clear!
Also sets a lowish precedent with City and probably Chelsea next up!
Ticks all the boxes without all hell breaking loose.

How about a zero point deduction and a "return to sustainability" plan to be agreed upon with the PL if any major concerns are found? Surely that's a just decision if P&S is the desired outcome.

Or if quite a few clubs look to be in a concerning position, perhaps this isn't a regulation that should stand, and we don't even need this commission.

City is a different scale and level of "crime". They're going to war over this. We should be demanding that the Club similarly doesn't go meekly to accept unfair judgment or punishment.

 

[Moderatelywarmwater]

How about a zero point deduction and a "return to sustainability" plan to be agreed upon with the PL if any major concerns are found? Surely that's a just decision if P&S is the desired outcome.

Or if quite a few clubs look to be in a concerning position, perhaps this isn't a regulation that should stand, and we don't even need this commission.

City is a different scale and level of "crime". They're going to war over this. We should be demanding that the Club similarly doesn't go meekly to accept unfair judgment or punishment.

The trouble is, that we have literally no idea what the bench mark will be as it’s never been tested before.
OK, we can look at the championship which has similar rules and regs, but that doesn’t mean punishments will be the same or similar… they coukd be more generous but on the flip side they could be more punitive.
if we had precedent it would be much easier to know how much to worry

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

If we were to get a points deduction for season 2023/2024 how does that effect us if we go down?
As we would no longer be under PL rules would the deduction become invalid
For me I would rather be relegated this year and have a chance of bouncing back before the new stadium opens than stay in the PL but start with a points deduction of between 6 and 12 points.
This team could not avoid relegation with a deduction next year.

That is a very interesting question.

In theory the two Leagues are supposed to enforce for each other or look into it but in practice?? It's never actually been tested under the 3 year rule. The system is in many ways harmonised.

Given the Football League stance on FFP penalties being points deductions I think they would be keen but again this precise scenario under these rules has never been tested. A bit like a PL charge or referral for alleged overspending until now.

Dropping would be no picnic. Everton afaik have very few relegation wage reduction clauses and a revenue fall would be £50-60m perhaps.

Then there is EFL FFP to consider. To 2023-24 if relegated the Upper Loss Limit would be £83m plus the usual allowances etc. £35m + £35m + £13m...rather than the £35m each and every year at PL level. What could be lost in 2023-24 and what cost cutting would be required would very much be linked to 2022-23 and 2021-22 accounts and or any verdict in this case.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

No mate it makes no sense at all..after all the Premier league were satisfied last year with our books, why should we accept a ruling from independent assessors.

Well you may say that, but the Football League with blessing of their clubs have done something even further.

Independent Body has been appointed to assess all clubs accounts especially with unusual or creative practices let us say and the League as voted on by the clubs have outsourced in effect their powers of investigation, sanctioning and or referral. Club Financial Reporting Panel which in turn aligns with the Club Financial Reporting Unit- external and internal.

Unsure how far back it goes but Reading were the first to be sanctioned under it and Watford have been referred for a Kamara sale and loan back.

 

[davek]

Well I for one would be concerned Dave..

He's not concerned.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

Be a bit bizarre if we swallow a 12 point deduction, get relegated because of it, but then get promoted the next year on form alone. Our first season back in the PL, City win their case and all charges dropped. We are then paid £75milllion compensation for wrongfully being sent down and given our points deduction back on the final day of the season, crowning us 7th place champions.

Tom on the DVD front cover.

 

[davek]

He said his guess would be a points deduction if found guilty. Is he not allowed to have an opinion when asked the question? A points deduction is one of the possible outcomes after all. If that is his opinion, I have no problem with him stating it.

If you think his personal opinion will have any bearing whatsoever on the ultimate outcome of the investigation / punishment, then crack on. Personally I’m not going to let it bother me.

Yes, he can have an opinion, of course he can. Kieran Maguire the podcaster is free to say WTF he likes - and he's welcome to be right or wrong on his forecast of punishment. But what he isn't entitled to is the respect an academic seeking to remain objective should receive.

That's the guts of this side-show.

And, btw, his opinion as a commentator must be seen in the context of his public spat with Everton over private conversations between both parties that he chose to leak.

 

[bag a yoko]

How about we dump FFP, dump VAR and fick the KSA out of the league.
It's not really entertainment anymore.

 

[davek]

If we were to get a points deduction for season 2023/2024 how does that effect us if we go down?
As we would no longer be under PL rules would the deduction become invalid
For me I would rather be relegated this year and have a chance of bouncing back before the new stadium opens than stay in the PL but start with a points deduction of between 6 and 12 points.
This team could not avoid relegation with a deduction next year.

I think it might be held over for when Everton gained promotion again. So Everton would start any newly promoted season with a points deduction.

That said, I think we're racing ahead with a view that points deductions are inevitable here. The PL commission can choose from a number of sanctions if it does find Everton 'guilty'.

This ^^^ is the ultimate harm of Maguire saying what he said, btw. It's created momentum among fans that there's an inevitability about points deductions...

 

[davek]

Maguire is in a privileged position because of his expertise and resultant access to an audience. He went on a national sports radio station expressing the view that a points deduction was the most likely outcome, so he was inferring guilt by expressing that opinion. I made the exception of tuning in live, and that was my take.

I'm aware that subjudice restrictions are not going to apply here but the principles of natural justice should. The people who will eventually sit on the panel do not live in caves. It's not enough to say we expect professionals to cast aside the noise and hear the evidence impartially, people are human and are subject to inference.

I think its important as the clubs future is on the line here. Punishment could well result in our relegation next season. Peoples jobs could be on the line, and I'm not talking about millionaire footballers. I don't say this to suggest the club are above scrutiny and criticism, absolutely not. But that's the problem here, it will be the club, the institution, the fans, us, that are at the receiving end of whatever punishment is meted out. As to the outcome of this hearing, our interest and the clubs interest are completely aligned (or surely, should be) in wanting to avoid and/or minimise punishment. There is no contradiction whatsoever in saying that and holding steadfastly to the belief that the owner and board have been an absolute disaster for the club and they should be removed immediately.

I just don't see how Maguires intervention serves the club in any way when it is in such a vulnerable position., and whatever our custodians have done, we should expect factual reporting. Maguire veered off that course by giving his personal opinion, which carries at least some weight by virtue of his background. He could have provided an analysis of the situation without acting as judge and jury.

100% all this.

Whats more, we now know what drove Maguire to rush to judge: it got personal.

You cant become part of the dynamic of a story and remain a dispassionate onlooker to it.

That's what's happened here.

 

[Blue peter]

Does it say anywhere in the PL rule book if the accused club, can request an adjournment of proceedings? For me, given the chronology of allegations against us vs the chronology and catalogue of allegations against City, surely it makes more sense for theirs to be heard first.

I appreciate it‘s a far bigger test case to handle, but I draw the parallel here of having a case go to the EWCA in civil litigation when there’s a Supreme Court case to be heard in a similar point of law. There’s no court hierarchy here of course, but surely the scope and breadth of City’s alleged breaches and the subsequent hearing would be more informative to decide the level of proportionality in punitive action taken where clubs are found guilty of similar breaches in future?

 

[Goat]

100% all this.

Whats more, we now know what drove Maguire to rush to judge: it got personal.

You cant become part of the dynamic of a story and remain a dispassionate onlooker to it.

That's what's happened here.

Im gonna vault you into next year WHEN we get a points deduction.

 

[davek]

Im gonna vault you into next year WHEN we get a points deduction.

There'd be no basis to vault me though. It wouldn't prove me wrong that there should not have been a prejudgment of any such outcome.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Or if quite a few clubs look to be in a concerning position, perhaps this isn't a regulation that should stand, and we don't even need this commission.

City is a different scale and level of "crime". They're going to war over this. We should be demanding that the Club similarly doesn't go

An alternative view might be that if there are 3, 4, 5 clubs in a questionable position with FFP or will be in one by next season say then it's the fault of those clubs for not managing their finances correctly or if it's a projected issue then the onus falls on that club to fix it by the deadline.

If they don't they get referred or charged accordingly.