Financial Fair Play investigation

[Tom Hughes]

No, I haven't desisted in stating his unprofessionalism in leaking private message exchanges. I merely omitted it to make the central point concerning Maguire's dual identity.

Here's the evidence you were at pains not to look for, btw.

talkSPORT | talkSPORT

...about 14.50 in he states his best guess is that Everton will be handed a points deduction for season 2023/24. Which goes way beyond what he did in that Sky Sports interview you linked where he merely states the commission can either accept the charges against Everton or dismiss them, and if the charges are accepted that they have a range of possible punishments they can use "a finger wagging, wage cap, squad cap and the next tariff would be a points deduction something done in the EFL but there's no reason the PL would take its lead from the EFL". Not a problem with that. It was a response that any football industry expert would be expected to give: providing information without committing to any conclusions. For TalkSport, however, he dons his other head-ware - that of social media entertainer - pushed into it by Jim White, he provides a guesstimate about Everton's likely guilt and the points deduction punishment they'll receive.

All of which underlines what I've been reminding you of here time and time again: his (and your) juggling of objectivity and subjectivity when it suits. That simply wont do. Being consistent isn't an option Tom, it's a prerequisite for anyone who wishes to be taken seriously in their field of work.

This cant be dismissed as dancing on the head of a pin, as you'd like, no doubt, to portray it. There is a real issue here over an individual with a large audience who has been over-stepping the line in his addressing of this matter (and turning it personal) at a time of great vulnerability for Everton's survival. You appear to applaud that because your primary obective is to get Everton's board out rather than Everton's survival as a top flight club.

So..... he hasn't prejudged the club's guilt at all! He simply offered his opinion about any potential tariff IF found guilty.... based on The PL handbook. All well within his remit, professional and otherwise.

Keiran Maguire, guilty only of stating the "bleeding obvious".

Thankyou!

Nothing more to see here folks.

 

[Tom Hughes]

I think it might be held over for when Everton gained promotion again. So Everton would start any newly promoted season with a points deduction.

That said, I think we're racing ahead with a view that points deductions are inevitable here. The PL commission can choose from a number of sanctions if it does find Everton 'guilty'.

This ^^^ is the ultimate harm of Maguire saying what he said, btw. It's created momentum among fans that there's an inevitability about points deductions...

So you're now agreeing with Maguire regarding potential points deductions.....haha

Stick to brickwork arguments Dave....

 

[davek]

So..... he hasn't prejudged the club's guilt at all! He simply offered his opinion about any potential tariff IF found guilty.... based on The PL handbook. All well within his remit, professional and otherwise.

Keiran Maguire, guilty only of stating the "bleeding obvious".

Thankyou!

Nothing more to see here folks.

Only if you're hard of learning.

To state that he believes the outcome will be a points deduction sort of carries with it an assumption Everton are guilty...unless Maguire feels the PL commission are going to break new ground by penalisng innocent clubs with points deductions.

*sigh*

 

[davek]

So you're now agreeing with Maguire regarding potential points deductions.....haha

Stick to brickwork arguments Dave....

The poster I responded to asked "what if there's a points deduction".

Happy to explain for you anytime you're confused.

 

[bluejohn66]

Does it say anywhere in the PL rule book if the accused club, can request an adjournment of proceedings? For me, given the chronology of allegations against us vs the chronology and catalogue of allegations against City, surely it makes more sense for theirs to be heard first.

I appreciate it‘s a far bigger test case to handle, but I draw the parallel here of having a case go to the EWCA in civil litigation when there’s a Supreme Court case to be heard in a similar point of law. There’s no court hierarchy here of course, but surely the scope and breadth of City’s alleged breaches and the subsequent hearing would be more informative to decide the level of proportionality in punitive action taken where clubs are found guilty of similar breaches in future?

Took the words outta my mouth with this, gotta be the way to go, let the City Sheikhs throw a Billion on their defence, the PL will back off no doubt and come out with a new set of rules.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Only if you're hard of learning.

To state that he believes the outcome will be a points deduction sort of carries with it an assumption Everton are guilty...unless Maguire feels the PL commission are going to break new ground by penalisng innocent clubs with points deductions.

*sigh*

Not when the questioning is about tariffs incurred IF found guilty...... and in every other inteview he states that clearly too.



Sigh.... indeed.

 

[davek]

Not when the questioning is about tariffs incurred IF found guilty...... and in every other inteview he states that clearly too.



Sigh.... indeed.

He's indulged himself in a guesstimate concerning Everton's guilt AND brought out of the punishment bag the biggest club possible.

Ok, he's had a spat with the club. But to let that dictate his comments on such a serious matter does him no favours.

As stated: I can see how some would be drawn to a man involved in football social media speculation, but he cant be taken seriously. Only the easily pleased would do so. They type of people who point up at the sky when they see a cloud in the shape of a head. Those types.

 

[Robbo05]

This is utter bs.

Even an evil child murdering scum bag would be able to have jurors removed if it was known they were following the story in the press.

They could even have trials moved to a more even handed location if the local press made having a fair trial all but impossible.

But c@nts like this can prattle on, release private messages into the public domain. Judge us, and now even all but sentence us and we’ll still have to face the commission who will be taking all of this press and social media crap in.

I think our board and owner have massively c@cked everything up and like I’ve said before I’m expecting everything to be bad news simply because it wouldn’t surprise me. I was going with the ‘expect the worse but hope for the best’ as my way of dealing with this sh!t show.

But this witch hunt with all and sundry going public with their opinions and doing a great job of trying to bury us is plain f@cking wrong.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Yarrgh]

An alternative view might be that if there are 3, 4, 5 clubs in a questionable position with FFP or will be in one by next season say then it's the fault of those clubs for not managing their finances correctly or if it's a projected issue then the onus falls on that club to fix it by the deadline.

If they don't they get referred or charged accordingly.

5 clubs? If 25% of the PL are likely to breach or are being hampered in the survival then the rules aren't fit for purpose.

 

[Tom Hughes]

The poster I responded to asked "what if there's a points deduction".

Happy to explain for you anytime you're confused.

Bit like when somone asks IF they're found guilty

He's indulged himself in a guesstimate concerning Everton's guilt AND brought out of the punishment bag the biggest club possible.

Ok, he's had a spat with the club. But to let that dictate his comments on such a serious matter does him no favours.

As stated: I can see how some would be drawn to a man involved in football social media speculation, but he cant be taken seriously. Only the easily pleased would do so. They type of people who point up at the sky when they see a cloud in the shape of a head. Those types.

So he hasn't said that the club is guilty.

Thankyou. You got there in the end.

 

[Lude]

Could it be that your financial concept is slowly destroying you in England?

Any club with an investor. Sheikh, American, whoever...

And the bubble is now so inflated that it bursts?

More and more money for mediocre players, everywhere.

Football doesn't get any better. The players and their advisors now only get more money.
Without doing more.

 

[Yarrgh]

Could it be that your financial concept is slowly destroying you in England?

Any club with an investor. Sheikh, American, whoever...

And the bubble is now so inflated that it bursts?

More and more money for mediocre players, everywhere.

Football doesn't get any better. The players and their advisors now only get more money.
Without doing more.

To answer your questions. Yes and yes.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 clubs? If 25% of the PL are likely to breach or are being hampered in the survival then the rules aren't fit for purpose.

Well maybe 4 or 5, I'm not certain but we have...

Everton and Man City- charged albeit with different types of offences.

Chelsea- Widely touted that they will need to sell players by the end of June.

Leicester- came near and then you factor in no European Revenue as didn't qualify could they be at risk this or next year.

I would also query albeit post promotion whether Nottingham Forest and Fulham were fine to 2022 but they're perhaps needing more investigation. Would that be the PL or EFL's problem? Moving between two divisions etc.

 

[Damo_1878]

W.71.
Any party to an appeal may apply for permission to adduce evidence that was not adduced before the Commission or Interim Commission that heard the complaint or Interim Application (as appropriate). Such permission shall only be granted if it can be shown that the evidence was not available to the party and could not have been obtained by such party with reasonable diligence, at the time at which the Commission or Interim Commission heard the complaint or Interim Application (as appropriate).

New evidence can indeed be entered but the constants around the introduction of any new evidence is extremely limited

I know. I didn't say otherwise.

 

[Villa_Fan]

He's indulged himself in a guesstimate concerning Everton's guilt AND brought out of the punishment bag the biggest club possible.

Ok, he's had a spat with the club. But to let that dictate his comments on such a serious matter does him no favours.

As stated: I can see how some would be drawn to a man involved in football social media speculation, but he cant be taken seriously. Only the easily pleased would do so. They type of people who point up at the sky when they see a cloud in the shape of a head. Those types.

Doesn't discussion of possible penalty always take place in the media when a club is charged? It doesn't matter what club it is the discussion is always there