Foreign Quota?

[SuitsBlue]

But there is a world of difference between someone who is mentally ill killing someone and an official Government making murder legal.

so suddenly every convicted murderer gets the excuse of ''mentally ill''

so, bless their cotton socks, they serve a paltry amount of prison time and then get released back into society to be good boys.

sorry, rabid dogs get put down because they are dangerous.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

so suddenly every convicted murderer gets the excuse of ''mentally ill''

so, bless their cotton socks, they serve a paltry amount of prison time and then get released back into society to be good boys.

sorry, rabid dogs get put down because they are dangerous.

Well i'm sure psychopaths who prey on the weak in society have that excuse.
The point is that there is a huge difference between someone stepping outside of the law and murdering someone and the very act which is supposed to be outlawed and morally wrong becoming legal and acceptable.

 

[SuitsBlue]

you make it sound malicious.

murderers choose their victims, by that action the murderer then makes themself a target for the police and the judicial system.

i put it to you that the current system of punishment serves as no deterrent, but in fact encourages crime.

you go sing about morally wrong and acceptable behaviour to sarah paynes family.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/minimun_terms.pdf is the guidelines from the Home Office.

It is known that reconviction rates for murderers are lower than for other offenders.

Also of interest is "Typically, two thirds of the victims of homicide know the perpetrator before the offence takes place, and in two thirds of these cases the circumstances were a 'quarrel,
revenge, or loss of temper'. Across homicides as a whole, in only about 4-5% of cases
does the perpetrator appear to have been mentally disturbed."

"As far as victims are concerned, the age group most at risk is children under one
year of age (82 victims per million of the population in 2000/01). After the first year of
life children are rarely the victims of homicide, but for men aged between 16 and 30
there are 33 victims per million, and for men aged between 30 and 50 there are 25
victims per million. Persons aged over 50 are at low risk of becoming victims of a
homicide."

Interesting when you look at things from a factual rather than emotional point of view isn't it.

 

[Robert Jarvis]

This is not about children in school or types of criminal but about immigrant workers. Go back and read the original post that started the thread.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm just trying to answer questions with facts here, if people aren't specific then what can I do? What is it about immigrant workers that you don't like?

 

[Dylan]

This is not about children in school or types of criminal but about immigrant workers. Go back and read the original post that started the thread.

And the thread has evolved Robert.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

you make it sound malicious.

murderers choose their victims, by that action the murderer then makes themself a target for the police and the judicial system.

i put it to you that the current system of punishment serves as no deterrent, but in fact encourages crime.

you go sing about morally wrong and acceptable behaviour to sarah paynes family.

I'm not saying anyone should go unpunished and that the judicial system in this country isn't often a joke. I dont believe for a second anything less than a considerable jail sentance should be handed down for murder.
But i do believe that legalised Government sanctioned murder for murder (and i believe any so called death sentance is exactly that) is a line i do not wish to cross. It is an act that should have no place in a so called respectable society.
I dont know the figures and cant be bothered to look it up but i do believe that the death penalty in America has not acted as a deterrent, the reasoning being that it doesnt stop people killing, it just makes them try harder not to get caught. That and as shown in an above post 2/3 of homicides were unplanned so nothing could act as a deterrent.

You go and try and justify the death penalty to the family of Timothy Evans, and every other innocent man killed by their Government.

 

[SuitsBlue]

needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

convicted murderers executed by the state do not murder again.

state execution and murder are two very different things, your "government sanctioned murder" comments belie exactly the ultra liberal lovie dovies that will condemn themself and more often others to deal with the criminals because judging and condemning them requires a spine.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Did you even read my post Suits?

 

[SuitsBlue]

my last response was aimed squarely at DRG

 

[Robert Jarvis]

Bruce there is no question that they are taking British jobs and I sincerely doubt that they are the benefit claimed to the economy, such statements IMO are far too glib and have no hard facts to support the alleged benefit and no one has attempted to quantify the cost of the immigrants.

I also object to the way Government just surrenders to immigrants, in my book they should not be allowed in if they cannot read, write and speak English and neither should marital partners have an automatic right to be citizens/residents. Eg if someone goes abroad to marry a citizen of another country it should be made clear they do not have autmatic right of entry but have to wait say 5 years. (Pakistanis figure largely in this)

Take the shop where Ghost's wife works. Now mostly Polish workers and no doubt on a lower wage. So is that decrease in the overheads reflected in lower retail cost. I do not think so, so where does the extra profit go, why to the owner of course. That is the real reason for taking on immigrants at the expense of our own people.

I also bet Bruce that where you live there is not a large immigrant or ethnic proportion.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

convicted murderers executed by the state do not murder again.

state execution and murder are two very different things, your "government sanctioned murder" comments belie exactly the ultra liberal lovie dovies that will condemn themself and more often others to deal with the criminals because judging and condemning them requires a spine.

Convicted murderers securely locked up in prison for the rest of their life do not murder again.
Have you not noticed in my posts where i said i fully believe in adequate severe punishment for murderers?
Or did you just want to label me a liberal lovie dovie because just like you i dont believe in murder?
As ive said before, the justice system in this country can be a complete joke at times, but that is not due to a lack of a death penalty.
You believe in a death penalty, i dont. And as far as i'm concerned a death penalty is state sanctioned murder. But its still murder no matter how you dress it up.
And just like you, i believe murder is wrong and have yet to hear one good argument justifying it.

 

[Dylan]

So do you think Timothy McVeigh should still be kicking around?

If you ask me, he got off easy.

 

[SuitsBlue]

Convicted murderers securely locked up in prison for the rest of their life do not murder again.

Have you not noticed in my posts where i said i fully believe in adequate severe punishment for murderers?

Or did you just want to label me a liberal lovie dovie because just like you i dont believe in murder?

As ive said before, the justice system in this country can be a complete joke at times, but that is not due to a lack of a death penalty.
You believe in a death penalty, i dont. And as far as i'm concerned a death penalty is state sanctioned murder. But its still murder no matter how you dress it up.
And just like you, i believe murder is wrong and have yet to hear one good argument justifying it.

you pay for them, the easy life in one bunk hiltons where human rights reign supreme. there are children and pensioners living in poverty, people on the streets, mental health care is so overwhelmed it simply cant cope, and you want full life sentances? sorry - not on my dime.

adequate severe punishment? lifetime in prison is severe?

state execution is different from murder, state execution is a punishment, murder is the act or acts of a supposed human being operating outside of the law to the detriment of another or others.

saddam hussein - executed by the iraqis with the backing of the states and britain - murder OR adequate punishment for an individual that sanctioned genocide.

i cant justify murder, i can justify state execution. i see a difference and see that proper punishment for an individual that callously breaks the law is a deterrent.

you have the prisons near you, you have the released criminals live near you and your family, you pay for the supposed rehabilitation of serious criminals.

if you arent up to the last paragraph then i consider you very very selfish at best.