2021/22 Frank Lampard

[Parker]

As bad as he was, I very much doubt Rafael sanctioned the moves for Patterson and Mykolenko. I think they were already in the clubs scouting systems and were happening anyway. But the rest, yeh.

What scouting system?

The one he got sacked?

The fella wanted a monopoly on footballing matters and he got it, thus leaving the manager search to Bill and Moshiri.

They were his signings.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

As bad as he was, I very much doubt Rafael sanctioned the moves for Patterson and Mykolenko. I think they were already in the clubs scouting systems and were happening anyway. But the rest, yeh.

Yeah, I'm sure a manager who got the DoF binned because he didn't want to work with him, forced out (at least) one of our best players for questioning him, and had the entire medical department sacked was DEFINITELY ok with two players being brought in without his sanction.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I wasn't meaning you said it. I've just seen a lot of people having a go at the sub and I think the manager was in a no win position. Keep him on and he gets sent off, and the manager is slated.

Yeah exactly, there’s some games when Allan gets an early yellow for absolutely nothing which is so annoying from referees. Richarlison is the same. First tackle, first yellow seems to be refs ways of stamping down on these players. Allan can’t complain at the yellow v Southampton though, he was a walking red.

He needs to control this but it’s sort of the wider problem if he gets exposed because the gaps are too big and then feels the need to throw a last ditch challenge. We need quicker centrebacks pushing higher up and all the players around Allan working harder. Then his own lack of pace wouldn’t be exposed as much. When DCL or Richy slacks off though it’s too easy for the opposition to move us around and find passes into central midfield where they can have a free run at Allan trying to cover half the pitch.

 

[kenada_blue]

Elsewhere he gets more points out of a squad the level as we have - which is poor but capable of getting 5/6 points more than they did under him.

He doesn't. His game plan and management was shockingly poor as it was at his previous 2 club's but he was given less grief cos their fans were in awe of him.

 

[TheNinja]

Yeah, I'm sure a manager who got the DoF binned because he didn't want to work with him, forced out (at least) one of our best players for questioning him, and had the entire medical department sacked was DEFINITELY ok with two players being brought in without his sanction.

I mean, OK, I imagine the club give him a limited set of scouted options to replace Digne with it being January and he choose the 'best' one. I probably should have phrased it that it was unlikely Rafael said "Go out and get me Mykolenko and Patterson, they're my guys!".

 

[johnjoeefc]

His remit is to avoid relegation because Benitez went on a run of 1 win in 14 games, sold off our most creative players and bought two full backs who don't start games for us and has made it almost impossible for Lampard to get top 8. And if Lampard does end up relegated it'll be the clubs fault for actually backing Benitez and giving him too long. Don't see how you can see it any other way or how you feel Benitez was somehow hard done by. He died on his own sword

I think it's unfair to suggest benitez was not hard done by. Any other manager who was in his position would have been given more time given the injury crisis he suffered. But at the first sign of any problems he was sacked. Since then 3 winnable league games have been lost and 1 won.

I'm not advocating for benitez but suggesting some people who only see him as the problem may be being a bit short sighted. Lampard is certainly not guaranteed to be the answer to this and the situation is that he has won 1 league game in 3 in games we should have been looking to get more from.

We all have to back what lampard is doing but why has it taken him so long to realise gomes cannot perform away from home. And why is he playing 2 up top leaving them massively isolated.

We have wasted two key away games while he's working out what his best eleven is. Surely it would be more logical to take more control of the away games in an adaptable 4-5-1 formation and try to nick a point in these games at least.

 

[davek]

Let’s be completely honest here. There was zero wrong with Lampard’s tactics against Southampton. We started off well, had control of the ball, they didn’t look a threat. That’s job done in my view from a tactical element and then you are looking for whether your forward players can make something happen, and whether your defenders don’t make mistakes. We were unbelievably sloppy at both ends, then when Allan goes off Gomes coms on and it’s clown time at the back and the game is lost.
Yes there was lots of hatred towards the players but the criticism still came towards the manager as well, even after 4 games two of which he’s won.
There’s a very predictable progression that occurs and even in its infancy you can’t call it out as people don’t want the alternative.
As soon as we start losing games it starts off with ‘should be playing x formation’ ‘not making subs at the right time’ ‘should be playing x instead of Y’
Then after a while these opinions become evidence based patterns of a managers limitations and the rumblings start that x manager wouldn’t play this way, y manager makes subs earlier, z manager is progressive and more hands on coaching, this manager has more experience, followed by the classic ‘we should have gone for that’. A few losses later and people are convinced we appointed them wrong manager and want him out.
When it comes to the two choices though of backing a manager for a multi year overhaul regardless of short term pain, or just spinning the dice on a new manager who might play a different formation or different players, the same section of the fan base always screams for option B because it’s cheaper, easier, and quicker.

Except we’re five managers in and 6 years later and option B still hasn’t worked.

It’s one thing to comment that there were some things in game Lampard maybe could have done better, but 4 games in two of which we’ve won these should be utterly minor comments. Instead they gather pace with every game we don’t win.

The only option available to us is the one you’ve laid out, get safe, turf these players out, rebuild next season to be mid table and take it from there. Questions about Lampard might be legitimate in that third season if he’s not able to progress from there, but really before then he’s dealing with absolute muck and will be doing a good job indeed if he can keep this ship steady. We should be 100% behind following this pathway and supporting Lampard in removing these toxic players.

We won’t be though, some of the fanbase still consider us to be a new manager and a formation change away from europe at any given point. If we’re mid table next season they’ll be questioning Frank no doubt in my mind. Just no patience to see through the job that has been needed at this club ever since Koemaggedon.

Read it and weep lads and lasses - this ^^^ is the cycle of dissent we've gotten ourselves into as a football club.

And yes, maybe my calling out rebellion at this stage is premature but, as @Saint Domingo identifies there, it starts with comparisons with other managers and their systems and then alternative names are mentioned and pretty soon we are at the point of bedsheets inside and outside grounds demanding the name on the manager's office door is changed again.

7 managers in 6 years....it's absolutely shocking.

It has to be Lampard for the next couple of seasons minimum regardless if we stay up or go down. There is relegation and then there's existential threat. And if we carry on down the hiring and firing road we're now on we'll end up with the latter as a top flight club and end up in the Championship for years to come.

 

[BrendanGOT]

I think it's unfair to suggest benitez was not hard done by. Any other manager who was in his position would have been given more time given the injury crisis he suffered. But at the first sign of any problems he was sacked. Since then 3 winnable league games have been lost and 1 won.

I'm not advocating for benitez but suggesting some people who only see him as the problem may be being a bit short sighted. Lampard is certainly not guaranteed to be the answer to this and the situation is that he has won 1 league game in 3 in games we should have been looking to get more from.

We all have to back what lampard is doing but why has it taken him so long to realise gomes cannot perform away from home. And why is he playing 2 up top leaving them massively isolated.

We have wasted two key away games while he's working out what his best eleven is. Surely it would be more logical to take more control of the away games in an adaptable 4-5-1 formation and try to nick a point in these games at least.

I didn't even bother reading past the first paragraph because... 1 win in 14... He was given ample time

 

[TheNinja]

What scouting system?

The one he got sacked?

The fella wanted a monopoly on footballing matters and he got it, thus leaving the manager search to Bill and Moshiri.

They were his signings.

Brands wasn't a scout though? We still have a scouting system and player reports without Brands being here.

 

[bcblue1878]

I'm not sure it's the personnel. We don't have the pace or ability to play through a press, whoever is playing.

So it is the personnel then?

 

[Theoneandonly]

His remit is to avoid relegation because Benitez went on a run of 1 win in 14 games, sold off our most creative players and bought two full backs who don't start games for us and has made it almost impossible for Lampard to get top 8. And if Lampard does end up relegated it'll be the clubs fault for actually backing Benitez and giving him too long. Don't see how you can see it any other way or how you feel Benitez was somehow hard done by. He died on his own sword

So let me get this right.

Rafael took over Newcastle in 19th place. Had 11 games to save them. A great many of you on here took pride in saying that Rafael relegated Newcastle.

Rafael left us in 16th place. Lampard has 15 games, if we go down it's Rafas fault.

 

[Parker]

Brands wasn't a scout though? We still have a scouting system and player reports without Brands being here.

He sacked Gretar Steinsson who was literally Head of Recruitment. Which is like Head Scout.

And Brands was Director of Football, which means scouting falls under the umbrella of what he does.

The fatman wanted control, he got it.

 

[Zeitgeist]

Read it and weep lads and lasses - this ^^^ is the cycle of dissent we've gotten ourselves into as a football club.

And yes, maybe my calling out rebellion at this stage is premature but, as @Saint Domingo identifies there, it starts with comparisons with other managers and their systems and then alternative names are mentioned and pretty soon we are at the point of bedsheets inside and outside grounds demanding the name on the manager's office door is changed again.

7 managers in 6 years....it's absolutely shocking.

It has to be Lampard for the next couple of seasons minimum regardless if we stay up or go down. There is relegation and then there's existential threat. And if we carry on down the hiring and firing road we're now on we'll end up with the latter as a top flight club and end up in the Championship for years to come.

I agree we need to stick with Lampard, Hassenhutl is a perfect example of giving a manager time, look at southampton now, he has them playing great.

BUT, this argument is not correct for Benitez, he should never have been given the job in the first place - there was clear discontent at the club with him there, he should definitely have been sacked.

 

[Theoneandonly]

What scouting system?

The one he got sacked?

The fella wanted a monopoly on footballing matters and he got it, thus leaving the manager search to Bill and Moshiri.

They were his signings.

When we signed Mykolenko, most people on here said we was already scouting him when Carlo was in charge. Again when we signed Patterson, people attributed that signings to Brands. VDB again was wanted by Brands.

My feeling is we are still using Brands list to buy players.

 

[Parker]

When we signed Mykolenko, most people on here said we was already scouting him when Carlo was in charge. Again when we signed Patterson, people attributed that signings to Brands. VDB again was wanted by Brands.

My feeling is we are still using Brands list to buy players.

Then why did they sack him if they're gonna posthumously take his advice?