2022/23 Frank Lampard

[Ian]

It's the essence of a gamble which just hasn't worked here. Moreover, it appears to have made things worse as recent seasons have made the avoidance of relegation rather than challenging the priority. Understandable why people are twitchy about having another go.

I get why people are twitchy, but the choice isn't between sticking with what we've got and throwing a die blindly. It's possible to put some thought and research into the decision, which makes it less of a gamble.

I'll grant you, it doesn't look like that's been the approach previously. We've not appointed managers with a record of getting the most out of poor to middling teams; at almost every turn, we've appointed on the basis of how big a name they are and almost no thought seems to have been given to whether they're any good.

To be fair, I'd have appointed Carlo. It was probably the most exciting day at the club since the 80s when he was announced. But Koeman? Benitez? Lampard? None had done better than their predecessors or successor with a team, at least not for 15 years. Martinez had just won the cup with Wigan - which was a great achievement, but their performance in the league was worse than his predecessors'.

Silva had actually made teams better than they should be and is doing so again with Fulham. That was the only appointment that made sense, and for me the only one who should have been given more time.

There was another fella but I think my brain has surpassed that memory. I just have the word 'gravy'.

 

[Ian]

We improved Defence and Midfield this year.

If next year we improve the attack and promising depth then we'll be stepping up.

Yeah there's something in that. Defence is certainly better. Midfield looks better but is it actually?

Do they protect the defence well? Not really.

Do they control the game? Almost never.

Do they create chances? Very few.

I certainly don't think they are performing as a unit to the best of their ability.

Anyway, you might be right, but my point is that we won't be getting even one top striker in, let alone three, so we'd better find another way to pick up points. I'm open to suggestions about which top striker we could afford and would agree to sign for us, but I can't think of one.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

We improved Defence and Midfield this year.

If next year we improve the attack and promising depth then we'll be stepping up.

We have improved the defence 100%. However, the amount of shots we concede is ultimately going to be something that will put us bottom of the table, this point brings me to my next point.

Improved midfield, on paper we have better players - however the system they are being used in is awful. Iwobi free(ish) role, no problem with it suits him, Onana, being used as a second striker in most games being pushed up and leaving a massive hole in midfield I have a problem with. Leaving Gana to do the tidying, the collecting the ball, the passing through the lines, I have a problem with - thats not what he is good at.

Our midfield has better players, but the setup and the actual way they are playing is no better in my eyes.

They need to leave Onana next to Gana and let Iwobi go free further forward, Onana being pushed higher up isn't working.

I rewatched the Bournmouth game again (cos I like punishment) and two things dawned on me.

We either have another set of players downing tools and not doing the simple things (pressing, positioning), or we have a manager who can't coach the system or not able to get the players to take it on board.

I like Frank, I think he gets IT - I said last season he is probably the right manager at the wrong time, and I dont know if I still agree with that. He is 100% not without criticism, set up at times is weird, subs are awful, you can say he's wrong without wanting him sacked.

We have to get out that sacking cycle, however my gut says its not going to end soon - I imagine Frank will have till the end of Jan and if things haven't improved drastically going forward unfortunately I think he will be a gonner.

 

[Ron manager]

I get why people are twitchy, but the choice isn't between sticking with what we've got and throwing a die blindly. It's possible to put some thought and research into the decision, which makes it less of a gamble.

I'll grant you, it doesn't look like that's been the approach previously. We've not appointed managers with a record of getting the most out of poor to middling teams; at almost every turn, we've appointed on the basis of how big a name they are and almost no thought seems to have been given to whether they're any good.

To be fair, I'd have appointed Carlo. It was probably the most exciting day at the club since the 80s when he was announced. But Koeman? Benitez? Lampard? None had done better than their predecessors or successor with a team, at least not for 15 years. Martinez had just won the cup with Wigan - which was a great achievement, but their performance in the league was worse than his predecessors'.

Silva had actually made teams better than they should be and is doing so again with Fulham. That was the only appointment that made sense, and for me the only one who should have been given more time.

There was another fella but I think my brain has surpassed that memory. I just have the word 'gravy'.

But you see if genuine thought and research was put in Carlo wouldn't have been appointed the state of this club is miles outside of his comfort zone.

 

[davek]

If we pick up 4 points from the Wolves, City , Brighton games we'll be on 18 points for the first half of the season. I think its likely we'll get those 4 points too, or just fall short of them by just beating Wolves.

That'd be pretty much half the number of points we'll need to stay up, and we'd have achieved it with effectivley no attack.

It stands to reason to me that any halfway decent additions to our attack in January will provide us with the firepower to get well into the 40 to 50 point range for the season.

Benitez last season always had a shot to get a point or more from a game by virtue of the fact we had Richarlison there for the most part - and Gray and Townsend (he's been missed, btw) were weighing in with goals.

Lampard will have that opportunity for his teams to get goals from January, and unlike last season with Benitez we have a potentially much more solid midfield and definitely a much more solid defence to back it up.

 

[Toffeelover]

Well said Dave. As regards replacement of Lampard I am sitting on my hands on this one for the moment.

 

[kev101]

We improved Defence and Midfield this year.

We've improved the midfield with more quality, but we don't play better in midfield.. that's pretty damning.

 

[4737carlin]

If we pick up 4 points from the Wolves, City , Brighton games we'll be on 18 points for the first half of the season. I think its likely we'll get those 4 points too, or just fall short of them by just beating Wolves.

That'd be pretty much half the number of points we'll need to stay up, and we'd have achieved it with effectivley no attack.

It stands to reason to me that any halfway decent additions to our attack in January will provide us with the firepower to get well into the 40 to 50 point range for the season.

Benitez last season always had a shot to get a point or more from a game by virtue of the fact we had Richarlison there for the most part - and Gray and Townsend (he's been missed, btw) were weighing in with goals.

Lampard will have that opportunity for his teams to get goals from January, and unlike last season with Benitez we have a potentially much more solid midfield and definitely a much more solid defence to back it up.

So your saying if we don't get 4 from those three games we have to sack him?
Since I can't see us getting anything from city, that's 4 from Brighton and Wolves.

 

[davek]

So your saying if we don't get 4 from those three games we have to sack him?
Since I can't see us getting anything from city, that's 4 from Brighton and Wolves.

No, I'm making the not unreasonable point that if we've almost picked up half the number of points we'll require to stay up (and that IS the only ambition we should have here, given that the club sold Richarlison) while having no effective attack to call upon then we can pretty much count on picking up more points in the second half of the season when we do have an attack out on the pitch.

 

[4737carlin]

No, I'm making the not unreasonable point that if we've almost picked up half the number of points we'll require to stay up (and that IS the only ambition we should have here, given that the club sold Richarlison) while having no effective attack to call upon then we can pretty much count on picking up more points in the second half of the season when we do have an attack out on the pitch.

Ok but what if we don't pick them up, Brighton with the new manger and 6 weeks or so preparations, and Wolves who also have a new manager and 6 weeks to get ready to face Everton without coady, what if we don't get those 4 points?
Leaving us we'll short of the half way stage target?

 

[davek]

Ok but what if we don't pick them up, Brighton with the new manger and 6 weeks or so preparations, and Wolves who also have a new manager and 6 weeks to get ready to face Everton without coady, what if we don't get those 4 points?
Leaving us we'll short of the half way stage target?

If we dont get any of those points we have to give him the window anyway - let him fix the hole in the team that was the board's making essentially.

 

[Curtis]

Those are exceptions rather than rules, you lose more by waiting with a manager who isn't good enough than if you simply sacked him now. Frank may yet turn it around, but there is a difference between thinking that losses are a result of growing pains rather than a manager who doesn't know how to get the minimum required results from this squad.

Exactly imagine if spurs stuck with nuno instead of replacing him with the obviously superior conte. I'm actually open to a new manager but the suceeding manager needs to be identified beforehand no fruitless managerial searches that seem endless and he would need to beclearly more distinguished than Frank otherwise its futile to sack him.

Also people rarely mention that Arteta was able cultivate success through extensive sound recruitment along becoming more tactically savvy. A factor we dont possess

 

[LeeCarsley]

Exactly imagine if spurs stuck with nuno instead of replacing him with the obviously superior conte. I'm actually open to a new manager but the suceeding manager needs to be identified beforehand no fruitless managerial searches that seem endless and he would need to beclearly more distinguished than Frank otherwise its futile to sack him.

Also people rarely mention that Arteta was able cultivate success through extensive sound recruitment along becoming more tactically savvy. A factor we dont possess

Well this is the elephant in the room, and that is unless Kevin Thelwell who actually has experience at building clubs is given the remit to select the next manager, then the board who have failed with every appointment and in almost every capacity would be selecting yet another manager and expecting him to just work with a squad of players he didn't sign and a DoF who he might not agree with. Arsenal succeed because they have a competent director who can identify players and a competent manager who is an elite tactician. I like Thelwell and think the changes he has made at the academy level are good, but some of his transfer moves aside from Coady are a bit puzzling. Lampard is certainly no elite tactician, I think even his most staunch defenders would agree.

 

[Terrarian]

Exactly imagine if spurs stuck with nuno instead of replacing him with the obviously superior conte. I'm actually open to a new manager but the suceeding manager needs to be identified beforehand no fruitless managerial searches that seem endless and he would need to beclearly more distinguished than Frank otherwise its futile to sack him.

Also people rarely mention that Arteta was able cultivate success through extensive sound recruitment along becoming more tactically savvy. A factor we dont possess

Mad how nearly every other team has someone lined up almost instantly yet we take weeks and weeks and our shortlists are bizarre.

 

[TheBigIguana]

We've improved the midfield with more quality, but we don't play better in midfield.. that's pretty damning.

Yes we're convinced we just need more attacking quality