Group C: Slovenia, Denmark, Serbia, England

[Gwladys St. Glory]

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[Goat]

So you’re saying you should get a trophy for coming close … where have I heard that before ???

The Audi Cup?

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

The Audi Cup?

2024 - Your participation trophy is on order.

 

[Goat]

2024 - Your participation trophy is on order.

Oh its coming home this year.

There will be dancing in the streets.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[coollino]

Southgate brought out too many fake football fans anyway. It got a bit weird so glad happy they are all bored again

The Italian player taking down Stirling(?) on the half way line in the final, and then non football fans calling for the death penalty will always be the highlight of his reign

 

[LinekersLegs]

England hit new low with dire performance too bad to be boring | Jonathan Liew

Such was the amusing ineptitude on show, it felt like watching a Woolworths 1990s football bloopers video

www.theguardian.com

Yet these were not the only grounds for the disorienting disposition of this encounter. Every time the men in white took possession of the sphere in the proximity of the left wing, they were consistently forced to funnel it, in turn, to the centre of the pitch, rendering most of their offensive efforts tortured, even disjointed. The side in red could simply defend their territory in the middle with impunity, secure in the knowledge their opponents were powerless to hurt them on their right verge.

That’s a pretty terrible paragraph, right? But that’s what happens when you wilfully restrict your options. You have Kieran Trippier, a right-footed left-back who doesn’t even bother trying to disguise the fact – no feint, no shimmy, no darting eyes – that he’s going to turn back inside. You have Phil Foden, a left-footed player with very little interest in playing on the left wing, who always wants to come short into the central areas. England are essentially a team playing on 70% of the pitch, which is like trying to write an entire paragraph – like I did above – without using the letter A.

 

[Mrbluenose]

Treading water until they face a top side and then it's back on the plane.

Please God no more Southgate after this tournament.

 

[Zatara]

I think these are fair points.

I, however, would also add that you haven't had the "right" type of player either. You have never fielded a Pirlo, Xavi, Modric, or Kroos in central midfield. Even when you had similar players (Scholes, Hoddle, Wilkins, Brooking), that type of player was marginalised or mistrusted, considered almost un-English and treated with suspicion.

In that sense, I don't think it is simply a manager or player issue. It's a culture issue.

Adam Wharton is going to be that type but perhaps its a little early for him. Though why not try him...

...seeing as theres no Kalvin Phillips

 

[bobbylatch]

Got about as much chance of winning it as the Tories have of getting s majority. Stopped watching them years ago.

 

[Billy Dean]

I think these are fair points.

I, however, would also add that you haven't had the "right" type of player either. You have never fielded a Pirlo, Xavi, Modric, or Kroos in central midfield. Even when you had similar players (Scholes, Hoddle, Wilkins, Brooking), that type of player was marginalised or mistrusted, considered almost un-English and treated with suspicion.

In that sense, I don't think it is simply a manager or player issue. It's a culture issue.

I disagree with Scholes being in that category but agree with you generally. James McLean was spot on about Rice yesterday too

 

[MikeH72]

You are right - but we hear this from England fans every two years.

Is it really the case that you always have great players and a crap manager?

Because that's how it appears from abroad...

I can’t remember us having a competent manager this side of the millennium, no. You could argue Capello but I think he was finished and a bit of a relic of the game by the time he got to England. He was still trying to play 90s tactics in 2010. We then followed it up with even more of a complete dinosaur in Hodgson, and then a complete clown in Southgate who is a step below even Steve McClaren as a manager. So yes I believe the main issue has been the management.

 

[Drico]

I disagree with Scholes being in that category but agree with you generally. James McLean was spot on about Rice yesterday too

I've been saying Declan Rice would be found out since way before this tournament, but people refuse to judge these players with an objective eye and prefer to look at them through a warped Premier League prism. We can blame systems and tactics, but the players too need to take responsibility and control - and Rice just isn't able to. England just don't have the kind of midfield player we all know they need. Southgate knows it too, but has realised far too late: hence the mad TAA experiment, which was never going to be anything other than a disaster. But when you think Kalvin Phillips is that player...

On the upside, now that England know their limitations, I think they can recognise what won't work and come up with something more suited to the players and qualities they actually do have. That should be enough to get them past Slovenia, win the group, and perhaps make the quarter-final. I don't think all is lost for England. I still think they are capable of making the last four - they might face Italy in the quarters, and they are no great shakes. But maybe the players will mutiny now and assume responsibility, because the manager looked shell-shocked in his interview yesterday. Time for the leaders to step up.

 

[Drico]

I disagree with Scholes being in that category but agree with you generally. James McLean was spot on about Rice yesterday too

Which bit do you not agree with? That he was treated with suspicion? Well, he was shunted out on the wing to make way for your noughties Jude Bellingham: Steven Gerrard (and Frank Lampard). Lampard and Gerrard are the kinds of player that English football loves: all action, "arriving late in the box", goalscoring. Bryan Robson - a marvelous player - was perhaps the prime example of the type.

So, Scholes - the most gifted of England's midfield players - was marginalised. The likes of Xavi and Iniesta expressed amazement that he wasn't more central.

It's a cultural thing. England produces lots of fine players, but the type they really need always plays second fiddle. "Square-ball Wilkins", as Denis Law termed the late Ray, summed up the general attitude of fandom to cultured, technical players in the 1980s. Yet, Wilkins, like the great Liam Brady, made a fine career for himself in Serie A, then home to Zico, Platini, Rummenigge, and Maradona. To be fair, it's not just an English thing. In Germany, in recent years, Toni Kroos was referred to similarly as "Sideways pass Toni". It's no wonder they won nothing since 2014.

 

[Sean Ashley]

Southgate brought out too many fake football fans anyway. It got a bit weird so glad happy they are all bored again

The Italian player taking down Stirling(?) on the half way line in the final, and then non football fans calling for the death penalty will always be the highlight of his reign

Was Saka