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Group C: Slovenia, Denmark, Serbia, England

Genuinely don't care if we lose the next one and go out.

England ain't winning it so a bad tournament gets rid of Southgate and his bland reign of PC ineptitude.
 
Drico said:
I've been saying Declan Rice would be found out since way before this tournament, but people refuse to judge these players with an objective eye and prefer to look at them through a warped Premier League prism. We can blame systems and tactics, but the players too need to take responsibility and control - and Rice just isn't able to. England just don't have the kind of midfield player we all know they need. Southgate knows it too, but has realised far too late: hence the mad TAA experiment, which was never going to be anything other than a disaster. But when you think Kalvin Phillips is that player...

On the upside, now that England know their limitations, I think they can recognise what won't work and come up with something more suited to the players and qualities they actually do have. That should be enough to get them past Slovenia, win the group, and perhaps make the quarter-final. I don't think all is lost for England. I still think they are capable of making the last four - they might face Italy in the quarters, and they are no great shakes. But maybe the players will mutiny now and assume responsibility, because the manager looked shell-shocked in his interview yesterday. Time for the leaders to step up.
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Yeah I've been saying the same about Rice for years too. But I've reassessed and would now be surprised if England get beyond the QF based on the two group games so far. I think whoever finishes 2nd in Spain's group will beat England unless there are some big improvements.
Drico said:
Which bit do you not agree with? That he was treated with suspicion? Well, he was shunted out on the wing to make way for your noughties Jude Bellingham: Steven Gerrard (and Frank Lampard). Lampard and Gerrard are the kinds of player that English football loves: all action, "arriving late in the box", goalscoring. Bryan Robson - a marvelous player - was perhaps the prime example of the type.

So, Scholes - the most gifted of England's midfield players - was marginalised. The likes of Xavi and Iniesta expressed amazement that he wasn't more central.

It's a cultural thing. England produces lots of fine players, but the type they really need always plays second fiddle. "Square-ball Wilkins", as Denis Law termed the late Ray, summed up the general attitude of fandom to cultured, technical players in the 1980s. Yet, Wilkins, like the great Liam Brady, made a fine career for himself in Serie A, then home to Zico, Platini, Rummenigge, and Maradona. To be fair, it's not just an English thing. In Germany, in recent years, Toni Kroos was referred to similarly as "Sideways pass Toni". It's no wonder they won nothing since 2014.
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Yes I disagree that Scholes was treated with suspicion. The tournament where he was played on the left was the best he'd played for England in years, and that was the best football England had played in years overall (from an admittedly low bar). At that stage of his career he wasn't the controlling midfielder he became in his later years after having long since retired from international football. But I agree with you on the rest of it. Regarding the English football culture, I can remember when Messi, Ronaldo and Xavi were voted into the Ballon D'Or top 3 one year, and one of the English newspapers headlines was "The Best Players in the World (and Xavi)", which was quite indicative.
 
Mrbluenose said:
Treading water until they face a top side and then it's back on the plane.
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You are almost certainly correct, but what we will now see is the England Rollercoaster Effect. Today, all is doom and gloom as some obvious truths have been revealed to those not paying attention, but England will recover, comfortably beat Slovenia or, if not them, whichever third-placed side they meet in the last 16, raise hopes of "football coming home" with a Kane hat-trick or some such mirage, put certain people into a frenzy of jingoistic expectation, and then go out agonisingly against whichever competent nation of similar resources they then meet.

It really is only a matter of time...but there is a caveat. I'm not sure that nation is actually in England's side of the draw until the last four when France are the likely opponents.

I don't think England will be swept out of this tournament in the Iceland 2016 style if they win the group. But Slovenia is a serious banana skin now. Fail to win that and they could find themselvs in the same quarter of the draw as Germany and Spain. Even an optimist surely wouldn't see them surviving both of those sides to make the semis. A pessimist might even see a pasting...
 
Jamiednm said:
England are totally lost in my opinion.

Static, slow, lazy, sloppy, stagnant, nervous, no ideas, no energy, no enthusiasm.

Playing a right back in centre mid in the hope he can hit long balls is desperate. Meanwhile the other top teams have established high-quality midfielders who are experts in their positions.

The absolute worst part for me is how compact and slow they play. When in possession, there is zero movement, no one making runs, dragging opposition players. They all just amble around, or literally stand still, waiting for something to happen.

Southgate should’ve solved this already, but appears to be clueless. This should’ve all been ironed out during qualifiers and friendlies.

Likewise, you’d hope the players have enough about them to solve the problems themselves in-game, but that is shockingly absent. They looked scared and clueless in the second half today.

At this rate, I expect England to squeeze through to the second round, get knocked out then, and be lucky not to get an absolute hiding by a coherent team that actually play functional, coherent football.
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Spot on with the text highlighted in bold. He’s kidding himself to be a tactical genius when he’s a failure in the role.

A bit like the waistcoat thing making him come across as a marvel, I noticed he was also chewing gum like Sir Alex did, he’s a serial delusional bell. He won’t resign he’ll think he’s got to work the answer to a 2+2 = 5.
 

Sly Sports News, running the risk of their headquarters being burned to the ground.

England at Euro 2024: Is this the end of Gareth Southgate's Trent Alexander-Arnold midfield experiment?​

 
Might be a bit of a melodramatic take after 2 games but wondering if Southgate might have lost the dressing room a little bit after the announcement of the final squad for this tournament. Performances have pretty much dropped off a cliff since then.
 
Billy Dean said:
Might be a bit of a melodramatic take after 2 games but wondering if Southgate might have lost the dressing room a little bit after the announcement of the final squad for this tournament. Performances have pretty much dropped off a cliff since then.
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Should've never dropped Grealish, can make a impact off the bench + very popular in the dressing room, the whole squad was in disbelief when he got dropped, so much so a player questioned big nose on it.
 

efcste97 said:
Should've never dropped Grealish, can make a impact off the bench + very popular in the dressing room, the whole squad was in disbelief when he got dropped, so much so a player questioned big nose on it.
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Yeah and even other ones like Rashford, Maddison, Henderson etc. The public was howling for them all to be dropped but they'd been present throughout the qualifying campaign, made important contributions and then discarded on the eve of the tournament in place of a load of new faces. Might have had an effect on squad morale. But like I said, might be an over dramatic take at this stage.
 
LEONARD said:
Sly Sports News, running the risk of their headquarters being burned to the ground.

England at Euro 2024: Is this the end of Gareth Southgate's Trent Alexander-Arnold midfield experiment?​

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He has at least 1 more game to run the experiment so no not yet

Southgate is basically the English Martinez, nice bloke but a terrible manager
 
Billy Dean said:
Might be a bit of a melodramatic take after 2 games but wondering if Southgate might have lost the dressing room a little bit after the announcement of the final squad for this tournament. Performances have pretty much dropped off a cliff since then.
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Imagine playing for Ancelloti, Guardiola or Klopp (yes I know, he's a bell but a top manager) and then you have to listen to Mr M&S waistcoat.

Is he really the best English manager?
 

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